http://www.schuermanarms.com/

Being the learner that I certainly am, this website intrigued me. Would J Belk/Systeme 98/ALF or other experts here please give their expert opinions?

Thanks in advance.

Good shooting!

More smoke and mirrors.

The bolt face position and operation is no different than a "C" ring Mauser.

The action seems to be a resurrection of the pivot lock Colt/Sauer system.

It seems to be a perfect example of too much spare time in a CNC shop.

[ 04-23-2003, 18:03: Message edited by: JBelk ]

No offense, but that stock looks like it is made out of recycled lanolium flooring.

While many of the concepts in play on this rifle are not new, the combination is. Without holding it in your hands, it's hard to say, but this could be a true advancement. At the very least workmanship appears to be very good, stock paint not withstanding.

I always said that a three lug controlled feed action would be the grail, perhaps someone is getting the message. FWIW though, an enclosed bolt head never meant that much to me, but I've never had a head separation. Looks good, but perhaps not quite good enough to justify the price tag. Although about thirty 'smiths are standing in line to sell accurized M 700's at this price point and they don't have the features this rifle has.

Gabe

Never mind.

[ 04-25-2003, 00:24: Message edited by: RSY ]

Gentlemen

The damn Sauer has come back to haunt us and this time they claim that it's controlled feed too

Take it away

/ JOHAN

JOHAN--

You got THAT right!!!

The ejector is straight from the M-1892 Winchester.

I'd sure like to get a look inside to see how the lugs are activated and cocking the firing pin takes place.

Rule One-- Work perfect. Hmmm possible...

Rule Two-- Look good doing it.

AAANNNckkkkkkkkk

Well, all I can say is "Damn that's butt-ugly"

Sako is making a controled round /pushfed safari rifle with a similar cut boltface!

Kimmo

The bolt face is a trite & trivial mix of features from the Carcano 1891 (extractor, rim) and German Commission 1888 New Model (ejector; the Mod. 1888 soon also adopted a controlled round feed).

Very unoriginal, and extremely ugly (the old Mossberg 800 bolt action appears like a beauty queen in contrast).

Carcano

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the Colt/Sauer's lugs in the REAR? I really don't think the rifle is any uglier than say a ah, Weatherby MkV.

Axel

someone PLEASE blue it and stick it in walnut... at least then I wont barf on it.

jeffe

I passed by their booth at the SCI show, and since I had a press badge they commenced the full-dress dog and pony show. The workmanship looked good, but my overall impression was a complex device looking for its next failure mode.

jim dodd

I am impressed with the project. The builder has eliminated unnecessary weight by reducing the action's diameter rearward of the reciever ring.
True, the bolt face it not fully enclosed, but extraction and ejection look to be pretty predictable and certain events. and has anyone else done controlled round feed without an extractor running alongside the bolt for its length? I am impressed with that bit of innovation. Also, I don't hear anyone bitching about Zolatone paint when it appears on a Brown Precision stock.

In my experience, it is not uncommon for those who can't [the naysayers] to bitch about those who "do" [the performers]. I am keeping an open mind. But on the face of what I see, I am impressed.

Jordan

Oh, please. That thing is uglier than the breath of a foul pig's ass. Isn't California where the ugly rifle was invented? I just drool over the "rollover cheek pieces".

I see no merit in it whatsoever. How is it possible to "improve" on a well made 98 Mauser? What advantage does it have? I'm a lover of pre '64 Model 70's but still acknowledge the superiority of the 98 design.

Looks like a piece of shit to me.

I wish RickMD could find some way to let us know what he really thinks. I love Mausers, but they are certainly no more of an end-all than the Model A was.

I can't get a good look at the action to determine if the entire bolt rotates or not. It looks to me like it does not rotate, so therefore the bolt handle turns some sort of cam on the inside that activates the unusual locking lugs. If nothing else, it looks interesting if you wait and check the price last.

Mehul, Well, I looked. Read the various posts, also read and re-read the rotating lug bit. There is not much I can pile on. Most of my sentiments have been stated, some less diplomatically than I might have. C'mon,Hey! I bet I have commented in diplomat format, 3-4 maybe more times than that in 60 years of looking at tools and stuff.

1, The trigger unit is large and long enough to have that round pin sliding in a slot anti spin around thing that is in the Mk V. The slot for that can be a continuation of the Ejector slot, which could then be the bolt stop. Clever. Especially if the anti spin rider is a key instead of a pin. After all it is Stainless Steel and we know how that can gall and cold weld.

2, The lugs themselves rotate, In and Out. Instead of as on the G orK 43 or the Degtyarov MG the turning of the handle piece and collar ( like on most 22 L.R Bolt actions) cams the lugs out.

3, To fully surround the case head and complete the seal a projection from the barrel could fill the gap and be a center feed bullet ramp- because the bolt doesn't rotate.Might be easier to open the bolt and shake the spelter out when some owner brings one into a shop after he had a melt down.

4, Modified to handle the ctg and incorporating a single file Lee version Magazine feed system( Like the biggies in the Mk V) You might could have a vehicle to build a .500 Schuler/Jeffery-Jumbo thumper on with some less trouble once you get past the start up expense.

5, I can see where this might appeal to those bravos who had a Mossberg for a while and did a tour packing the mouse gun, but everytime I hear or read Charlton Hestons "...cold dead hands" speech I immediately remember having to do a familiarization shtick with what could have been a very nice M-14 and the weather was about sleety freezing. Some dim bulb brought out the school usemup Knockabouts- the ones with the clammy feeling brown plastic stocks. Felt like I was half way toward what Heston was speechefying about. So what more can I say? I vote it will last longer than the "Texas Magnum" on the market and will get its share of write ups.

Thos. Burgess said, "I vote it will last longer than the "Texas Magnum" on the market and will get its share of write ups."

I liked the three lugs and full dia. bolt of the TX Mag. Other features were a lot less desirable.
It will be interesting to see what some engineers and designers have to say about this new action. Obviously, it was not designed to appeal to the Mauser/M70/T-model Ford crowd. Anybody that buys one of these would probably put one of those awful variable power scopes on it! And maybe even use Burris Signature rings with those PLASTIC inserts!

I have never had a case head rupture, but I have had a couple of case-head separations in a M 71 .348 Winchester (back before I knew what that bright ring arounf the case meant!!). Fortunately, the separations occurred far enoungh up the case that the remaining stub sealed the chamber.... Removed the front part of the case by "screwing" a rattail rasp into the case neck, and pushed it all out with a cleaning rod... the rasp did not touch any part of the chamber or throat.

When I saw how the Colt Sauer straight pull relied on bolt lugs that need to open I put it back on the rack.

This design is just going too far with a complicated system to gain less desireable features.

I read that The Williams Firearms Co. has CRF/enclosed head design?

Lots of guns are ugly. To me the Mauser 98's are ugly and I don't own one. But ugly or not it would be form over function if that design was good. The Mauser 98 is a good design for a 19th century military bolt rifle.

I agree that the moving lugs is anything but an improvment over fixed lugs on a rotating bolt. Like Jack said, smoke and mirrors.

Jay,
The Texas Magnum continued on for quite a while (with some modifications) as the Wichita 1375BR action. Wichita said they were going to design a magazine system but I don't know that they ever did so. I had heard that Wichita Engineering actually made the Texas Magnum, hence the relationship, but I'm not sure of this.
I don't care much for the non-rotating bolt on the rifle in question and don't think I'll be lining up to buy one but some surely will. Regards, Bill.