Late this year, I'll probably be buying a barrel for my one and only custom gun. It'll be on a Zastava 98 commercial action. I'll probably use a medium sporter barrel between .600" and .650", about 26" long. I have narrowed it down to 270, maybe, but probablly 7x57 or 30-06. It'll be used mainly for 300yd or less shots but a 400yd absolute maximum shot is possible but not probable. Smallish deer and pigs to 350lbs are what it will be used for. I have a question about barrel 'grades'. I'll probably use a Pac-Nor, but that's not set in stone. Most companies offer a 'standard' barrel and then one or two grades above that. For my purposes are the better grades worth the extra money over the standard? thanks, capt david

To my knowledge barrel grading is not something with universal standards throughout the industry that you can compare. Each company can pretty much set their own standards for their grading.

With that in mind...when barrels are made they are checked for straightness and smoothness of bore and rifling and air gauged for uniformness for the entire length. Each company will have certain tolerances that are allowable and those at the higher end of those tolerances will be given a higher grade than those at the other end.

Obviously, a smoother, straighter, more uniform bore is going to have the potential for better accuracy and will probably foul a bit less than one that isn’t as smooth, straight and uniform.

Are you going to notice a big difference between a high grade and a low grade for hunting deer and pig sized animals...probably not. Both animals have vital zones of a size that does not need sub MOA accuracy to hit at the ranges they are normally encountered.

for reasons far beyond the practical if you';re going to have a custom rifle built I'd buy the best barrel you can get. Will it be a lot better than a lesser barrel?.....likely not.....but don't leave room for excuses.....it's not going to be a cheap gun no matter how you do it.....get the best.

If you're going to the trouble of building a custom rifle, buy the best barrel you can, and have it put on by a good smith. That set up will get you accuracy with any bullet you choose and be a joy to clean.

If you go budget barrel and budget smith, whether it shoots or not will be a crap shoot, and odds are it'll be rough and a pain to clean. If you have a good smith put on a so-so barrle, odds are it'll be a shooter, though it may be finicky about what bullets it likes, and may be a bugger to clean.

The entire reason for building a custom rifle is to get something better than the factories offer, and you only get that when using quality componets.

If you're going to build just one custom rifle, then do it right and have it built exactly how you want it. If you cheapen out, you won't be happy with the results, you'll likely sell it for a loss, and then have built what you wanted all along, which would have been cheaper had you gone the route you wanted off the bat.

It took me three customized rifles and two gunsmiths to learn this lesson. I could have one nice rifle vs the 3 so/so ones. For all future customs, I'll save my pennies until I can afford what I want.

Excuse me...But I would not consider a standard grade Shilin, Kreiger, Schneider, or Hart barrel sub-standard or bargain basement barrels just because they are not the highest grade match select ones offered by those companies.

I have to agree with Rick0311 on this with the brands that he mentioned. I have just a little experience in that area. The difference in specs on a Shilen match grade versus the select match is so small that it would be a waste of money on a hunting gun. Butch

None of the companies I mentioned turn out a barrel, of any grade, that would not be perfectly suited to the finest custom rifle you could have built.

If someone makes shit...why would you think their higher grades would be anything more than higher grade shit. For those uneducated out there, that’s Latin for “rough barrel.â€

get what ya pay for.

quote:

Originally posted by JustC:
get what ya pay for.

And...you PAY for what you get!

There are so many really good barrels being made right now, it is a buyers market so to speaak.

Its been posted by me and others before on a pretty long list of really good rifle barrels. There are some barrels I never run across on the cheap. But there are really good barrels that can be purchased reasoonably. My last gun project I used a Shilen match grade, I bought it through Brownells as I didn't want to wait, and I think I paid about $20-25 for the premium barrel. To me that was worth it. Douglas charges very little for their premium line of barrels. In these barrels for a few dollars more I figure it is worth the insurance, the cost of having it put on right is more expensive than the barrel anyway.

There are some other barrel makers that I am unaware of any lesser grades. Obermeyer, Krieger, Lilja, Hart they only make premium barrels, no lesser grade barrels.

For hunting, not benchrest applications there is no need to go into the super grade barrels, in my opinion. The barrel contours are usually too light to get the most out of the high end barrels. In Benchrest and sniper style rifles this is a different matter, the have heavy contours and I wouldn't build this type of rifle on a lesser barrel, to much invested in trueing a fiddling to take a chance on.

Some good values in barrels:

Lilja CM-$265
Douglas-air gauged (XX) $200
Walther - $220
Shilen- $190

THe last three are from Brownells, for a hunting rig any of these are a good bet.

Most of the top makers have “match grade†and “select match grade†barrels that are graded as I described earlier.

As schromf pointed out, the “select match grades†are intended for BR, varmit, or other heavy barreled rifles used for long range and/or ultra accuracy rigs.

Using Shilin as an example: Their standard match grade barrels fall within .0005†of tolerance, and have an overall uniformity within .0003†over the entire length of the bore. Their select match barrels are within .0003†of tolerance and have an overall uniformity within .0001†over the length of the bore.

The standard match grade barrels are more than enough for any hunting rifle, and would certainly be considered a top of the line barrel by anyone with any degree of knowledge on the topic.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:

quote:

Originally posted by JustC:
get what ya pay for.

And...you PAY for what you get!

While I agree this is the case 99% of the time, for a fellow looking to put a mid-weight barrel on a Mauser '98 (like the Cap'n here), the screamingest deal in the custom gun world is the Lothar Walther pre-fit barrels. They are slightly long-chambered so can be fit with a minimum of machining and no reamer required. On mine, the contour, threads, chamber and crown were cut perfectly and even the finish is superb (like 600). They are somehow able to sell these for less than a blank (!?!). About $150 a couple of years ago. About as cheap as ER Shaw (which BTW, I hear has retooled and makes a decent barrel these days...). According to Woody, these are the same grade as the rest of their contoured blanks (awesome), just mass produced, hence the lower price. I know he stocks alot of std calibers on the east coast, but I had to wait a while for mine to get here from Germany. Anybody looking for a #3ish contour premium custom barrel for a great price needs to check them out.

Waterfowler,

I think the only point most of us were trying to make was that the slight difference in grades of barrels (from the same company) is not worth the extra money for a hunting rifle.

The company you mention makes terrific barrels and any grade you get from them will be perfectly fine on a rifle for that purpose.

Actually, the only barrel that I've considered other than the Pac-Nor is the Lothar Walter. It's around $170 the same price as the lower priced P-N. The more expensive P-N is around $210. FWIW, I've just about decided what caliber Im going to build for '06, but I'll let you guess!

Capt.,
Make sure are comparing apples to apples. I'd be very surprised if Pac-Nor offers a threaded, chambered and crowned barrel for $170. I'd think that was for a contoured blank only. I may be wrong though. No doubt they make a fine barrel.

quote:

FWIW, I've just about decided what caliber Im going to build for '06, but I'll let you guess!

I'm thinking ....308? ;^P

The difference is- PacNor makes a decent barrel. Butch

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
The difference is- PacNor makes a decent barrel. Butch

Butch, if you are implying that Lothar Walther does not make a decent barrel, you are truly showing your ignorance. I'd go so far to say that if you pulled random barrels off the production lines of both Pac Nor and Lothar Walther, the LW will more often than not make a better shooter. I'm not saying that I think Pac Nors are mediocre, I think they are among the best!

h20fowler-you can always look at that another way.

Around these parts decent mean something is pretty good, but not great or excellent.

Perhaps that was his point?

I'd agree, Pacnor is a "decent tube", but it is not a great one.

Just my thoughts on tubes.

Twer it me I'd go Schneider,Krieger or Lilja. I've found these tubes to be a few steps above the decent ones.

MD

Mr. Waterfowler, I may be ignorant, but how many LW barrels have you chambered? Do you know how many bushings for your reamers that you need for the great amount of tolerence they have in each caliber? I agree that they are good enough for minute of fair size animal.I will give you that. You will not find them listed on any equip. list for long or short range benchrest. They just aren't good enough! This is all I will say on this matter. Butch

One thing I noticed when I have gone barrel shopping is that I can get a great barrel for not much more than an average barrel. I'll pay for a barrel from a barrel maker who shows up
consistently in the bench rest records. I then have little doubt that it will exceed my personal expectations. I'd take a Hart, Lilja, or a few others without any worry about quality. I am not a benchrest shooter, just a picky varmint shooter, but I do respect their opinions on who makes good barrels.

Butch,
I've not personally chambered any LW barrels, but know of more than one gunsmith that thinks of them among the best. Nor do I seriously play the benchrest game [I do have one (smallish) trophy], but am close to a few fellows that do, one of the more prominent ones which believed that LW made the best 30 caliber barrel to be had, which incidently is what the original poster is leaning toward. I also bet you'll find more LWs on the bench than PacNor. Not that anybody brought up BR before you... we're talking about 8 lb. Mausers and <$200 barrels. But to imply that LW barrels are sloppy crap compared to PacNor and only minute of animal leads me to believe you don't know anything about them... Not trying to start a pissing match. If you think little of them for some reason, that is fine, give a reason. I have never heard of a sloppy LW, but have read of a couple of dissatisfied PacNor customers, but admittedly many more that like theirs.

Perhaps, I misinterpreted the original question that started this thread...but I could have sworn that the gentleman wanted to know the difference between a manufacturers Grades of barrels...and was it worth the money, for the top grade the manufacturer listed, for a hunting rifle...NOT A BR RIFLE.

I use PacNor tubes among others for BR barrels. Contrary to "popular" beliefs,..I have never not won the match due to my barrel. Mine will hold in the .1's when I can do my part. I have yet to see them outshot by my hart or shilens. Straight and consistent is straight and consistent,..it matters little what name is stamped in the end if it is straight and consistent.

I have seen/heard of bad barrels from EVERY manufacturer out there. Law of numbers.