If any of you have gotten the latest issue of "Dakota", the "news from Sturgis/summer2004" you may have noticed an article entitled "UNIQUE...is the word". the caption under the title states it is "Don Allen's last custom rifle." This may be a bit misleading; the article only later gives credit where due. The stock work and all finishing was done by Tony Schuelke, member in standing of the ACGG, The engraving was done by Gene Plante a member and officer of the FEGA. Marvin Huey did the oak and leather case and the accompaniments. It states that Don Allen did the metalwork. I am skeptical, Don was a stockmaker, not a metalsmith. My point is, Read the article and find out the facts before assuming the bold print correct. Support the ACGG/FEGA by buying a raffle ticket at ACGG.com. It could be yours and is a work of art.

http://www.acgg.com/

I can imagine a whole world of shit out of this from the Dakota crowd

Ok, now I've read the "Unique" article. It also says Norma helped him as well. Not very likely.

Dakota Arms has it's employees log in to a computer everything that they do every minute of the day. It was a pain in the ass when I worked there, And I'm sure the employees still feel the pain. The computer records could however shed some truthfull light on this subject. Someone could, using just the serial #, have Dakota look up who logged in time on the Q-rib, barrel band, Banded front sight etc. While Don may have done some puttering here, I would bet a large chunk of money that the computer records would severly discount the claims made in the "unique" article.

gunmaker

Jim
I followed your link to the acgg and checked out the raffle projects. On that page it reads "The metalwork was completed by the late Don Allen". This is a VERY vague statement. If anyone is wondering if Don installed the sideplates, my educated guess is NO WAY!. I'm sure the quarter rib was just built in the shop by an employee. It looks like the ones I used to make there. I never saw Don build one. In my 4+ years working there I only remember two times that Don did any metal work. I'm not saying he couldn't, I just never saw him do much of it. I do remember him trying to make safe jaws out of his hardened & serrated 5" Chinese bench vise jaws. He set them up on the 6X12 KO Lee surface grinder, touched off on the serrated surface and then cranked the head down .030" and tried to make a full wheel width cut. The wheel quickly came to a screeching stop. Don shut down the grinder and raised the wheel and scratching his head he said "I can't figure out why this wont take off .030". You can on the mill." The other metalsmithing I witnessed was him reshaping a 20 gage set of Mirouko barrels to fit on the chunk of steel and then shape the chunk of steel to simulate a shotgun receiver. He did a reasonable job and the polishing shop took it from there. This is the Dakota Legend that is used for adds with lots of engraving. It doesn't have any internal parts or cuts for them and will not stay closed. That's why all the pics of this are with the barrels open.

I wonder who really did most of the metal work. It just looks like someone is trying to cash in on Don's name. While the statement is very misleading, it may just mean Don just puttered with it for 20 min at his bench.

I'm not trying to bash Don as he can't defend him self here. I've just seen, in print, Don's name attached or vaguely associated with plenty of work he did not do. This happened on a regular basis while I worked there, and it is possible that it is happening again.

I'm sure some ignorant person will think I'm just being an a$$hole here. Then my educated guess will be that the ignorant person has never worked for DON.

gunmaker

thefinegunmaker,

Did you get fired from Dakota? Ever heard the old adage, "if you don't have something good to say, don't say nothing at all."

I know nothing about Dakota firearms, I've never even handled one. But every time "Dakota" comes up, you start running your mouth off about them. What's up with that? I'd kind of like someone who works for "Dakota Firearms" to give me the straight scoop on you. What's your name?

AD

Maybe, but if I was to spend that kind of money, it would have a clover leaf rear tang, , or it would have a stripper clip cut out on the left side.

Norma had this rifle at the SCI show in Reno (and at the ACGG/FEGA show) this year. I don't have any idea how much work Don put into it, but it appeared to be a very nice rifle. AND, I believe ACGG is an organization worthy of people buying a few tickets for chances on this rifle.

It's not like you are paying the full price of admission, this is a raffle rifle.

JB
The new owners of Dakota are multi millionaire lawyers. I wouldn't think of telling lies just for $hits & giggles. I do understand your lack of trust regarding my posts though.

One thing you might believe is the computer record of the labor on every employee and rifle that goes through the shop. Based on my past experience, I believe the rifle in question, the subject of this post, should have records of who logged in time working on it. I am assuming that the article that says Don was THE metalsmith that built the side plates, quarter rib, barrel band &B/band front sight is VERY misleading and the computer records could back up my claim.

Don't rule out buying a Dakota for yourself someday. You just might find one you can't do without!

gunmaker

JBabcock
Did I get fired? Well that depends on who you ask. My version is No I did not. I quit when I had another gunmaking job lined up in upstate NewYork building Titanium Mausers. At the time Norma told me to take a few days off without pay and I told her I won't be coming back. Oh well just gasoline under the flaming bridge.

Speaking about the "old addage", I was responding to the topic of this post. And, yes every time I see something posted about Dakota I do try and chime in here and shed some light on the shady parts. The truth shall set you free!

You say you haven't seen any Dakota Rifles. I would urge you to remedy this unfortunate situation. But PLEASE don't base your opinion about Dakota rifles in general by just seeing one rifle. Because of large turnover at Dakota the final product does vary. There are some fantastic Dakota rifles out there. There are also some lemons that usually generate more loud opinions than the really nice ones.

You seem interested, again, in finding out my name. I'm not sure that would help contribute to subject of this thread. It makes it easier for me to "spill the truth beans" in a discussion about Dakota. I do not wish to out any names of people I know there and unfairly drag them into this mess. You kind of have to either have a little faith in what I have to say here, or just discount my facts here like the Kerry campaign is doing to the "Swift Boat Vets" Personally I'd consider my self and my posts inline with the vets. An unwelcome, to some, statement of facts that either agrees with you or it doesn't. I don't wish to offend you, I just never graduated from charm school.

gunmaker

I feel this way about it.

Maybe their rifles are junk, then again, maybe they aren't. But many folks own them.

The internet is a great place to read lots of interesting info, it's also a place where somebody can just post something, and you can't really verify if what they are saying is true or not. Pretty easy to libel or slander someone, and then sneak off into the bushes.

You might be right, then again you might not be. I've read varying degrees of opinion about Dakota rifles, enough that I probably wouldn't own one, but, like I said, I've never even seen one.

I will say this, and I mean no disrespect to you, I put a lot more stock into someones opinion when I can see who they are.

Mr. Kobe posted the article, and his name. If somebody doesn't like what he said, at least they know who posted it.

I'm rambling on... as usual.

As Executive Director of the American Custom Gunmakers Guild and author of the article on the ACGG #20 in the latest issue of the Dakota magazine, I would like to address the issues and criticisms raised here.

Don Allen was a metalsmith as well as a stockmaker. He was admitted as a member of the American Custom Gunmakers Guild (ACGG) in both categories of membership. He designed the single shot several years before the Guild was formed in 1983. I personally have stood in his shop watching him work on metal and wood.

The chairman on this Guild project and members of the board of directors of the ACGG approved the participants and the proposed firearm over four years ago with confidence in the makers� skills and the agreed work.

The ACGG #20 project was Don�s last custom rifle - it was the last custom gun that he worked on - even through a series of surgeries and chemotherapy. It was important to him to complete the project for the benefit of the Guild that he helped form. I believe the caption was appropriate for the audience of Dakota Arms� readers.

These projects are a personal joint effort of members of the ACGG (not ACGG/FEGA) - this one was not a Dakota Arms� project. There would have been no reason for Don Allen to log into Dakota�s computer system any information on this project - even if it had been his habit to do that on other work.

The article does not say that Norma Allen helped with this rifle. It says that she helped Don found Dakota Arms.

This is a unique - one of a kind - project. The ACGG wants is to give someone an opportunity to own a custom gun that might not be able to otherwise - and to show the public the caliber of work that can be done by Regular Members of the American Custom Gunmakers Guild. The Guild�s website is www.acgg.org

Jan Billeb, Executive Director
American Custom Gunmakers Guild

Nice to hear from you Jan; unfortuneately I don't agree with your assessment of the statement in the article. My objection is with the suggestion that this rifle was built by Don Allen as his "last custom rifle". I do not with to detract from Mr Allen's abilities; only that it is questionable that "his" abilities were used as a basis for the metalwork. As for that, I have emails from former employees to back up my claim. Perhaps you might email me and we can share some information on this.

I just got back to town and have read some of the responses. This is NOT about Dakot rifles. It is about someone claiming to have done the metalwork on a rifle that was comisioned By the ACGG/FEGA to be built by a metalsmith, a stocker, and engraver and a fitted case maker. Dakota arms did not even do the finishing on the metal. It may be true that I have no use for Don Allen, but I stand by my original statement: I seriously doubt he did any metalwork on it. It is an injustice to the guild. As for Mrs Norma Personality Allen, they say she is on a "well deserved" vacation. Yeah right.