My Godson is getting tired of waiting for me to croak. He was an armorer as an additional duty during the last decade in Iraq and Afghanistan, and wants to expand the scope of what he can do. I told him my 14" x 40" Behemoth might be too much of a good thing, anyway.

I was looking in the latest Northern Tool Master Catalog. There was a listing of a JET "Gunsmithing" lathe, 9" x 36", can progress at just .001", yada, yada, do.

Are these made in Taiwan or the PRC (Red China).
Are they any good?
If they are junk, is there anything decent made anywhere?

I hope they are alright. Westpac is about to spin a Krieger on one for me. Judging by the brake he just installed for me I think he can do some good stuff on it.

Thanks for that tip to follow up on.

Hey Malm, what say you??

Hey John,

I'm on my second JET lathe. The first one was a 12x36 Belt Dive, Bench Lathe. It worked great for what I needed at the time for strictly gunsmithing, but, in 1994 I had the opportunity to do some after hour work that required a little larger capacity and so I sold it and bought a JET 13x40 Gear Head Lathe and am absolutely pleased with it's performance. Both are solid machines and are built in Taiwan.

I have a 13X40 and it does everything I want as far as gunsmithing. I wouldn't go any smaller. At times I use all 40 inches. The 1.3 dia spindle hole is ok but once in a while I wish it was bigger. The 13 inch swing is just fine......Tom

my Jet lathe is 13 X 40 gear drive and I wouldn't recommend anything less

The spindle bore on the JET 12x36 was 1.375 and on my JET 13x40 is 1.500.

Thanks for the feedback.

I hope he has to wait a long time for me to croak just to get my 14x40.

I had better re-check the Northern Book.

13x36 might allow through the head barrel work.

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:
The spindle bore on the JET 12x36 was 1.375 and on my JET 13x40 is 1.500.

What is the length of the headstock through to the chuck jaws? Short enough to do a 22" barrel?

Jim

21.5"

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
What is the length of the headstock through to the chuck jaws? Short enough to do a 22" barrel?

Jim

You can do any length barrel if you support it in the headstock bore. A 1.3" dia. bore will swallow any barrel I have worked on. If you are trying to thread the end of a 22" barrel with the action attached, you are at the limit as Westpac pointed out.......Tom

That ain't the way I do it! I only asked because I was wondering How long a barrel I could get in that lathe. I already have a lathe but I would not think of doing it the way you suggest.

OK, I’ll bite. Why would you want to spend good money on a POS disposable import when the market is flush with much higher quality used machinery at a lot less cost? That’s like going to a gun show, walking past tables full of Parkers and LC’s, each for a hundred bucks then walking out, going to Wally world and laying down five bills on a new plastic and pot metal import pump. Just my 2 cents. Earl.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Earl:
OK, I’ll bite. Why would you want to spend good money on a POS disposable import when the market is flush with much higher quality used machinery at a lot less cost? That’s like going to a gun show, walking past tables full of Parkers and LC’s, each for a hundred bucks then walking out, going to Wally world and laying down five bills on a new plastic and pot metal import pump. Just my 2 cents. Earl.

where?

quote:

where?

Just about everywhere, you just need to know where and how to look. Give me a city/state/zip code, I'll see what I can do for you.
Earl.



This is one of my mediums, I was turned on too it for 500 bucks when I stopped to give a big mac too a homeless bum.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Earl:
Why would you want to spend good money on a POS disposable import

What is your experience with JET?

quote:

Why would you want to spend good money on a POS disposable import

Because the least expensive NEW American made lathe is the price of a new PickUp truck (And I bet they still have tons of imported parts)

I went the used US Lathe route and became a lathe restorer rather than a gunsmith. And the two lathes I had bought and restored were still inferior to my 12X36BD Jet for gunsmithing. The headstocks were either too long for "in the headstock" barrel work, or the bore was too small. The Jet is just right!

My 12X36BD Jet is a fantastic lathe. 1985 vintage, Taiwan manufacture with a nice American DC motor conversion and Shooting Star DRO. I've thought about "upgrading" to something new, but every time I go and look, the thought of spending thousands of dollars just for "new" makes me decide otherwise.

quote:

What is your experience with JET?

Westpac, About 15 years ago we ordered a new lathe for our shop (Procter and Gamble, Ivorydale, Cincinnati) and received a Jet (Falcon) 20x80 instead. After a year or so we shoved it off the loading dock and into the scrap metal dumpster. I have bought five or six of Jet badged lathes over the years made by Falcon, Amissae, and Select. Jet has never made a lathe, they are an importer, not a manufacturer and the lathes they sell are also sold by Grizzly, Enco, MSC, and many others. RoyB owns an Amissae. I did own one of these in my shop years ago (Amissae) until I picked up a 30 inch EE Monarch. It really wasn’t a bad machine but it sure wasn’t a Monarch. I have owned somewhere around thirty lathes over the years and currently have four in my new and three in the old (both home) shop. I spend ten to thirty hours a week on three lathes (one Taiwanese, Turret make) and have paid the bills for three decades as a machinist.
I have been too both the Romi and Nardini plant in Brazil, married a Nardini sales girl, and can differentiate between a DIN 8605 and 8606 by the lathe spec sheets. Earl


RoyB,
I understand where you are coming from and can appreciate it. Your lathe is one of the better imports especially for the small home shop. I still like the good American lathes and have no issues doing minor work on them, though often they don’t need it. I did price a Monarch EE back in the mid nineties and the bill “as issued” was $103,000.00 about that time I had a Chevy PU that cost me twelve grand. It was all American made, however Monarch uses “reclaimed” beds. I also asked LeBlond for the price of grinding my ways on a South Bend 16”and was told it would cost me 16 grand for a complete rebuild.
I currently have a small Hendey Tool and Gauge lathe, about the capacity of yours (it’s a 9x24, 3100 lbs) that I paid 700 bucks for used. Other than new belts, DRO and paint it’s as I got it. There are some good deals out there and if you really want a good deal on an upgrade, this is one I have been watching in your state, I bet they would take 2200 bucks for it. Earl
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150656...id=p3984.m1438.l2649

This is my 700 dollar Hendey.

The 2 JET lathes I have owned and have been using since 1980 have been first class. I run these machines everyday for one thing or another without so much as a hiccup. The only things that needed attention is the adjustment or replacement of drive belts. For building and maintaining precision firearms, which is what I primarily use mine for, they are perfect.

I have one thing to say.... Mori Seki or the Webb machinery copy there of.
And used machinery is not hard to come by.

Granted not an American lathe but by far the best imported lathe money can by. They are rare on the used market for good reason they last a damn long time. But when they do come up they are very inexpensive. They are also relatively newer machines so restoration of a 1950's era machine is not going to be the case. As for precision and accuracy they rank right up there with a Monarch and thats a tool room machine.

I'm on the hunt for a Mori and when I find one when I have the funds available I will snatch it up on the spot. It will be the last lathe I will ever need.
And it will do everything a gunsmith needs a lathe to do and more all for a few grand.

Sigh.

Westpac,
Glad you like your lathes and they work for you. I still cotton to the higher quality American machines at a lot less money. Most of the best lathes (and machinery in general) were made at the hands of American craftsmen and they are at bargain prices now. Lathes in general have evolved at about the same rate as bolt action rifles and I surely wouldn’t shun a Pre-war Winchester over a Howa just because the Howa would do the job. Just a grumpy old Germans opinion. Earl.

Kerry,
Mori’s and Webb’s are rare in these parts. Monarchs, LeBlond’s and Cincinnati’s are all locally made and growing up in Cincinnati it seems everyone knew someone who worked for one of the machinery makers. Check out the Nardini’s, they offer excellent value for the buck used and most would make DIN 8605 despite not being classes as tool room lathes. Earl.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Earl:
Westpac,
Glad you like your lathes and they work for you. I still cotton to the higher quality American machines at a lot less money. Most of the best lathes (and machinery in general) were made at the hands of American craftsmen and they are at bargain prices now. Lathes in general have evolved at about the same rate as bolt action rifles and I surely wouldn’t shun a Pre-war Winchester over a Howa just because the Howa would do the job. Just a grumpy old Germans opinion. Earl.

Kerry,
Mori’s and Webb’s are rare in these parts. Monarchs, LeBlond’s and Cincinnati’s are all locally made and growing up in Cincinnati it seems everyone knew someone who worked for one of the machinery makers. Check out the Nardini’s, they offer excellent value for the buck used and most would make DIN 8605 despite not being classes as tool room lathes. Earl.

Earl. I grew up on American made lathes and other machinery. Served a five year apprenticeship in the 60's. Worked on everything from a 12" Leblond to a 72" one with a smattering of American, Lucas, and Monarch in between. Even ran an oilcountry lathe with a 8"bore through the headstock for drill pipe. I now own and use daily, a 12x36 Jet that I bought new because I could not find a used decent lathe when I needed it. That "American lathe" you got pictured would not work for me, too long in the headstock. It sure looks sturdy though.

My previous question had to deal with the length of the headstock on Westapc's gear head lathe. I wanted to know if I could do a barrel job through the headstock because I was thinking about a new lathe. Then some idiot mentioned I could "bush the bore" to support the muzzle end of the barrel to compensate. If I can't indicate in both ends of the bore I would use a different, less accurate, method.

Earl Nardini's are great machines but rare as can be in my area. Monarch, Mori seki, Clausing colechester, are more plentiful then all the import stuff. Jet is not a bad machine. it's just that the correct model needs to be chosen as they do make lighter duty models.
Personally I'm going to get a used Mori or Webb copy. if not that then a HAAS tool room CNC lathe I can get more use out of that machine then I could a standard engine lathe.
A lathe for barrel work either needs to have a short enough head stock to indicate both ends of the barrel or a long enough bed to put it on a steady rest. I don't care for the steady rest method.

I used to own a tool distributorship and sold Jet machinery. My info is 5 years old (when I sold the business) but here goes.
Jet was owned by a Swiss company and only dealt with about 3 factories in Taiwan and they had their own source inspectors at those factories. As opposed to Enco and others, instead of going to all of the factories and getting bids on a 13x40 lathe, they sent their own design to the factories, speced the bearings, etc and said "build this." They also at that time stocked over $20million of parts in Tacoma, Wa. If one of my customers needed parts, I usually received the correct part from Jet before the other places like Enco could figure out who made the machine we were trying to buy parts for.
Jet's small lathes were as good or not better than anything except Hardinge and Monarch EE. And BTW EVERYBODY'S castings come from China (even Bridgeport).
So for a used lathe I would pay a premium for a Jet over ANY other lathe because of parts availability. Again, this info is 5 yrs old so you may want to check with your local ditributor to verify the info.

We see a lot of Jet stuff here in the PNW. I've owned a few of their smaller lathee, and they felt like junk to me, but, admittedly, all the small lathes feel junky. I think once you get into a 13" swing, the quality really goes up.

I've a few smaller lathes now, and the 9x20 Jet (no good for rifle work, but thought it'd be useful for recrowning 1911 barrels and such) bench lathe is a real POS.

I also have a later Atlas 12x36" machine that I really like, but again, it's no good for rifle work because the spindle bore is too small. I do have a nice set of rests, but even with that, it's not ideal.

The thing I'm hoping for is to continue to watch Craigslist here locally. The guys at Auburn, WA Jet facility put machines on there from time to time that have slight shipping damage, and they sell them at very discounted prices. It's just up the street from me, so picking it up will be easy. Once I find the one I want, I think I'll get rid of my 9x20 and my Atlas (and the sale of those would probably pay for the Jet).

Also... a big issue for a guy like me... One of the best things about these Jets and newer machines is that they were intended for guys in small shops or at home. All that great old American stuff was built for industry, and is wired for such. I don't have 3 Phase out her, and I don't want to run a Phase Converter.

Dont need a phase converter if the motor is small enough.

My mill and surface grinder run on a VFD and it can handle up to 3 hp motor.
My opinion is three phase is the only way to go. Motors are cheeper and just as easy to find. very simple and allows instant reversing. low amp draw to and low inrush due to not needing a capacitor and a second set of windings to get it going.

And VFD or DC motors give a MUCH better finish to the work. no 60 cycle "buzz finish"......

My Jet had a conventional 220V 1ph motor for 15 years. Huge improvement to surface finish when I converted it to DC. A 3ph motor with VFD is simply the best of all worlds.

I saw a friend do some nice taping with the instant forward and reverse. I don't know if this is good or bad for the lathe, but it worked great.

Be careful of new JET products (Since about year 2000 or so. I understand they switched from Tiawan and went to mainland China and quality wasn't the same. (Maybe Blacktailer could verify this.)

I went back and re-read the Northern Catalog.

What they have listed as a, "gunsmithing" lathe is a 12" x 36" "Shop Fox". It looks kind of light for serious work. I do have an itty bitty shop fox for converting cartridge cases. I do not know if all "Shop Foxes" come from the Red Chinese or if any of their models originate in Taiwan.

The smallest, "Jet" listed is a geared 13" x 40" , 1 3/8" hole through spindle, quick change from metric to SAE and back. 2HP, 230V motor (I assume three phase, but do not know for sure.

My lathe has a 3 Phase 3HP motor at 230V.

All this leads me to a couple questions. I am sure it is good fun finding and rebuild old American iron. Where do you find service manuals? Where can you get fresh bearings, raceways/cups, if needed. What if you have a geared head machine and a couple gears have lost teeth in a bar fight? Is there a gears 'R us store? You catch my drift, I am sure.

Nearly every manufacturer has a parts dept. Now As with anything when buying parts from the factory be prepared for sticker shock. Bearings have numbers on the races, easy to find and replace. Might be expensive but you can still get them. Anything old enough that the company is no longer in business. You are on your own and should expect as much.

As far as a machine having fouled gearing. Thats when you walk away. By the time you tear everything down, found new gears reconditioned everything and was ready to reassemble. you'd have a month or two of sundays tied up. And that's if the person doing the rebuild has the skills to do it. Not be demeaning or anything but I've rebuild my fair share of machine tools and was paid to do it to. There is more then meets the eye.

But my advice is the only thing you should be replacing on a machine is the motor, bearings, oil seals and belts. Outside of that you may be digging a deep hole to throw money in.

The thing is a machine that is "worn out" for a machine shop my be fine for a gunsmith that only fires up the lathe once or twice a week.

By all means if you can afford a decent machine get it. Again nothing wrong with a Jet. but don't over look a good used machine

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
The thing is a machine that is "worn out" for a machine shop my be fine for a gunsmith that only fires up the lathe once or twice a week.

If a machine isn't good enough for a machine shop, what makes you think it is okay for a gunsmith? You do understand that gunsmiths, those who do their own machining anyway, are expected to, and are capable of, turning out every bit as precise work as their machinist/tool and die maker sisters don't you?

Here is a nice, shiny, new deluxe Amissae from one of the larger dealers that specializes in tools of this quality. You can Google up a 20% discount coupon and probably get the kid behind the register to have his manager throw in an electric fly swatter or a sweet set of electronic curb feelers. This is a Jet painted green, Enco gets them blue, MSC’s are off white and Grizzly’s come in a different shade of green. Same factory, same paint, different color.
http://www.harborfreight.com/1...tal-lathe-66164.html

Awhile back someone posted a thread about buying a beautiful old Hendey (one of the best makers this country ever had) on this forum asking about the quality of it in relation to the dirt cheap price. A lot of naysayers chimed in giving their opinion. One of our members posted a link to the thread on a professional machinist site just for grins. It pretty much got the laughs it deserved. There’s a reason you don’t see the lower quality imports in professional machines shops and it’s the same reason you don’t see Big Lots wrenches in a professional auto mechanics tools box. I would never expect the Guild or SCI to ever have their annual gun raffle on a dolled up Chinese SKS nor Tiger woods to be playing with new clubs he bought at Wal-Mart. You can say a lot of good things about a Yugo but it still don’t measure against a Cadillac. I do realize a lot of good work can be done on hobbyist lathes, my personal opinion is its money ill spent in this market and that was the crux of this thread.
Here are two quality made lathes from dealers that have a street price about 70% of their asking price.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/120792...id=p3984.m1438.l2649
http://www.ebay.com/itm/360400...id=p3984.m1438.l2649
Here is one that sold for 20% of the Jet price:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NICE-S...&hash=item25683c96b1
and another that will go one third the Jet price:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CLAUSI...&hash=item53e98a7ee6

Westpac,
What class of gun work do you do that requires a lathe hold +/- .0001 for 20 inches on a seven inch cylinder? Or threading over 32 inches with a +/- 30 second run out fit too a class 8 thread gauge? Last summer I held .0005’ on a roller thirty seven inches long and 13.125 wide. Try that on your Enco. We hoisted the work in the lathe with a forklift and ran a torch ahead of the ceramic cutter to help break the R-23C surface. My beater, an old South Bend will hold zero for the length of a barrel thread and the tailstock is in perfect alignment with the spindle bore. What more are you doing other than barrel work that would require this type of accuracy?
Lawndart,
American machinery has always been made to standards, It’s easier to buy bearings for old machinery from distributers than it is to buy 30-06 dies from Midway. As for manuals, almost all are readily available from Tony’s site or Ozark Woodworkers’ site and most can be found free on-line. If you have a few teeth chipped on a headstock gear it’s due to abuse, that’s on any lathe. The “can’t find em, grind em” mentality is often prevalent. The big difference is with a quality lathe you can remove the gear, repair it and have a gear as good as new. The el-cheapo’s you simply put on e-bay with an “as is” tag as the “sintered alloy” is really not wieldable. I cut gears often and while it’s common to cut standard tooth involutes, module involutes’ are a different story altogether.
Kerry,
I might have a line on a Webb/Takasawa if you are interested or are you holding out for a Wachalon? If you think the Mori-Seiki lathes are sweet, check out the new line of Llian built mills. A buddy of mine bought 40 of them last year and they are at least as good as a LaGun but at half the price. I wanted one for the new shop but the school where I teach just got in two Haas tool room mills and after playing with them I’m hooked. I need to build an addition on the addition. Earl.

I have no horse in the race so.... this tread could be about cars, boats, guns, watches... etc.

The thread is about the "serious" hobbiest who wants to step up to a lathe. If you need a lathe (or mill) to fix a lathe (or mill) than what's the point of any old/used machine.

At this point you're really buying the dealer not the lathe. If anything is wrong with a new product you have recourse. What's it cost to have the ways reground ($16K) or bearings replaced on an ebay machine?

I have a smaller belt drive JET. Maybe 20" centers. I've had it since the late 80's IIRC and haven't had a bit of trouble with it. It's had alot of use.

It won't do rifle barreling projects, and I never expected it to. But for what I use it for in my repair and restorations, it's been great.

If the recent mfg lathes are as well built and I had the need (and room) for a bigger one, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another JET.

I've been down 'old machinery row' a couple of times. That seems to be an expensive time consuming hobby in itself restoring them.
Hats off to those that have the know how and skills for that sort of work.

A few 2 cents worth.........This summer I happen to be down in Pennsylvania riding around on my motorcycle. I come around a corner and there is the east coast Grizzly warehouse with retail store.

I spent two hours there! If it's dealer support you want, the warehouse was stocked with parts and tools. The owner of Grizzly is a shooter and a very competitive one at that! If you like guitars or guns, you are instant friends!

Although many of the lathes might be made in the same or associated factories, the quality is dependent on the Americans that are in China dealing with QC issues on a daily basis. The Chinese are capable of some extremely technical manufacturing and assembly. My new Nikon D90 camera and a bunch of the lenses come from China and it don't get any better. The new BMW R1000SS sport bike that is getting rave reviews come with more than 50% sourced from China. A couple of the new BMW engines are totally built in China. Reliability has proven to be better than German made products in many respects.

Grizzly has "Boots on the ground" in China. The quality is excellent for the money spent. If my Jet 12X36BD ever gives up the ghost, I'll replace it with a Grizzly. I have a Grizzly mill and a 7" hoprizontal band saw that have been wonderful for over 15 years. No issues what so ever.

Hope this helps in your buying decision

quote:

Originally posted by Big Earl:
Westpac,
What class of gun work do you do that requires a lathe hold +/- .0001 for 20 inches

Some of us work on the other end of the bed as well and all points in between. We need as much accuracy at one end as we do at the other. And if it's your prized piece in the lathe, you would want or expect nothing less.

quote:

If you like guitars or guns, you are instant friends!

And it seems surfboards these days, too.

The grizzly guy is a true first-generation immigrant success story.

Grizzly advertises "gunsmith" lathes- I don't know the why's-and-wherefor's of them; the Grizzly power tools I do own are quite robust.

quote:

Grizzly power tools I do own are quite robust

I'll second that. I went thru alot of air sheers at work, over a dozen a year, bought a Grizzly last year and it's held up since.

Where were you guys when I put the word out on this Emco Meier Maximat. It is made in Austria. It is a 1985 model and looks to have hardly been used. It was very well tooled and had a 1.375 spindle bore.He reduced the price to $3500. and it ain't Chinese.
http://www.practicalmachinist....1-lathe-sale-232483/
Kobe, you can put a cat head on each side of your headstock and probably do a 19" barrel.
Butch

Butch,
I had one in my old shop and for such a small machine it was pretty darn accurate. Wish I never got rid of it but the indentured servant didn’t cotton too it.
The problem I see is a lot of guys really don’t know the difference in quality between a professional tool and the cheap stuff. It behooves me that a guy will shun a Howa while glassy eyed over a Griffin and Howe Springfield and then turn around and shun American quality machinery (made by some of the best craftsmen ever born) in favor of the junk china stuff sold by the can. Earl