I passed it up and am having serious second thoughts. Saw it at a gun shop while out of town on business.

Original DWM 1909, no pitting, trigger guard matching number. Couldn't read the stock no., likely not matching and had a crack through the wrist. Blueing was nice, no extra holes or anything, crest and lettering looked perfect. Would make it into a custom but not sure I would want to ruin it.

Was $350 too much to pay or should I call and see if they still have it? (No, won't tell where it is just yet)

Err...$350 isn't a horrible price for a 1909. They are no longer in production and they're becoming harder to find. I might have bought it at that price if I'd had the cash to spend and wanted another Mauser. Whether I would have made a customer rifle out of it depends on what the bore looked like. I need another Mauser to pour money into like I need a third eye, but if the bore was a sewer pipe, I would have at least made it shootable.

Now if it were an all serial numbers matching model with a pristine bore, I'd have to swat you on the nose and call you a bad boy for passing up on a rifle like that for $350. Those are getting hard to find!

The last one I bought (bare complete action) I paid $250 for about two years ago. But good ones are getting harder to find all the time as well as good smiths that are familiar with the art of turning one into a fine sporter.

If I wanted a nice mil/surp action sporter I wouldn't worry too much about the action price. By the time you're finished building the rifle, If you paid $50-$100 too much for an action it won't even be remembered.

Terry

the bottom metal alone runs $100 or more.....

Personally I think $350 is a "leave it" price....

I'd far rather find a VZ-24 and add bottom metal.

There was resently 2 at the local gun shop for $200 each

I remember many moons ago when I bought 5 of them in a store for $75.00 each.

I think $350 is a bit high considering I have a one (no bottom metal) barreled with a new E.R. Shaw Barrel in 7 x57 with a new bolt handle that I can't sell for $350.

Depending on what you have in mind you will have a few other costs to pencil in. Barrel about $250. Chamber job about $150, Trigger about $100.00 installed, bottom metal can set you back $150 to $650. Stock work can make you think you need to be in a different tax bracket,
sights or a scope could run up to $1500.00 and then if you want to get fancy, checkering and engraving. All depends on where you want to go. If you want a rifle to shoot then $350 isn't too much for a nice Mauser. It's all these other guys with their beautiful rifles that will make you feel the pressure to build a nice custom. The 1909 is a good platform to start with. IMHO

Passing was the right thing.

I have owned several of the 1909 actions over many years, and none worked out satisfactory. The first one I actually barreled and shot, very soon set back on the lugs, and became useless. After that I had three heat treated, and all were ruined from warping. About three years ago, I was lured in again by a good looking 1909 action, and bought it for $150. When I sent it to Pac Nor to put a barrel on it, they informed me that they would not barrel it, because it tested too soft. They said it had already set back, just from firing the original military ammo.

So, naturally my opinion is that all these actions are worthless unless you just want to look at them, and these people spending big money to make custom rifles from 1909s are wasting their money.

I'm sure some will strongly disagree, but when their expensive prize sets back - oh well.

KB

I was offered a 1927 Paraguayan Mauser rifle in 7.65x53 for $150. I haven't seen the rifle, but wondered if it was the same as a 1909 Argentine.

Can anybody help me with this?

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Passing was the right thing.

I have owned several of the 1909 actions over many years, and none worked out satisfactory. The first one I actually barreled and shot, very soon set back on the lugs, and became useless. After that I had three heat treated, and all were ruined from warping. About three years ago, I was lured in again by a good looking 1909 action, and bought it for $150. When I sent it to Pac Nor to put a barrel on it, they informed me that they would not barrel it, because it tested too soft. They said it had already set back, just from firing the original military ammo.

So, naturally my opinion is that all these actions are worthless unless you just want to look at them, and these people spending big money to make custom rifles from 1909s are wasting their money.

I'm sure some will strongly disagree, but when their expensive prize sets back - oh well.

KB

I will, never a problem for me.

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Passing was the right thing.

I have owned several of the 1909 actions over many years, and none worked out satisfactory. The first one I actually barreled and shot, very soon set back on the lugs, and became useless. After that I had three heat treated, and all were ruined from warping. About three years ago, I was lured in again by a good looking 1909 action, and bought it for $150. When I sent it to Pac Nor to put a barrel on it, they informed me that they would not barrel it, because it tested too soft. They said it had already set back, just from firing the original military ammo.

So, naturally my opinion is that all these actions are worthless unless you just want to look at them, and these people spending big money to make custom rifles from 1909s are wasting their money.

I'm sure some will strongly disagree, but when their expensive prize sets back - oh well.

KB

And then there is David Miller who made many many very fine Big Bore Rifles on 1909 Actions. Jim Carmichael has written on many occasions about his in .338 Win Mag that he used all over the world. Never changed point of aim and no setback. Before he started Dakota Arms Don Allen made many very fine rifles on 1909 Argentines.

You have to have them heat treated by the right place and they won't warp and they won't set back.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
I remember many moons ago when I bought 5 of them in a store for $75.00 each.

I think $350 is a bit high considering I have a one (no bottom metal) barreled with a new E.R. Shaw Barrel in 7 x57 with a new bolt handle that I can't sell for $350.

Might be the barrel.

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
I remember many moons ago when I bought 5 of them in a store for $75.00 each.

I think $350 is a bit high considering I have a one (no bottom metal) barreled with a new E.R. Shaw Barrel in 7 x57 with a new bolt handle that I can't sell for $350.

Might be the barrel.

Terry

Might be, but its Brand new and Professionally installed. Where are you going to get a 1909 with a new bolt handle and a new 7 x 57 barrel already installed for that price????

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Passing was the right thing.

I have owned several of the 1909 actions over many years, and none worked out satisfactory. The first one I actually barreled and shot, very soon set back on the lugs, and became useless. After that I had three heat treated, and all were ruined from warping. About three years ago, I was lured in again by a good looking 1909 action, and bought it for $150. When I sent it to Pac Nor to put a barrel on it, they informed me that they would not barrel it, because it tested too soft. They said it had already set back, just from firing the original military ammo.

So, naturally my opinion is that all these actions are worthless unless you just want to look at them, and these people spending big money to make custom rifles from 1909s are wasting their money.

I'm sure some will strongly disagree, but when their expensive prize sets back - oh well.

KB

And then there is David Miller who made many many very fine Big Bore Rifles on 1909 Actions. Jim Carmichael has written on many occasions about his in .338 Win Mag that he used all over the world. Never changed point of aim and no setback. Before he started Dakota Arms Don Allen made many very fine rifles on 1909 Argentines.

You have to have them heat treated by the right place and they won't warp and they won't set back.

Perhaps proper heat treating is the solution, but it didn't happen for me because I gave up on these actions, before succeeding with one. Part of the reason it took so long is because I kept reading the success stories and recomendations of others. But, my conclusions about these actions are based on my own actual experience, and not something I read, or someone else said. At least for me, and my recommendation to others is to find another action as a basis for a custom. The chance of success is greater starting with any commercial action, such as FN or Mark X, or Ruger.

I wouldn't use one even if I was assured of proper heat treatment, because there would always be the nagging thought of past experience with them.

I have read and talked with some of these guys who made just shooters or works of art from the 1909, and discover that they didn't do any hardness test on the action, nor do any heat treatment. This has been the case far more often than having someone say that they were assured the action was of the proper rockwell hardness before going ahead with the custom project.

It is beyond my reasonableness test to think how common this is, given my experience with these actions. Perhaps there are guys who do the hardness testing or heat treatment, but it seems all to often it's reported in the third person. I would like to really know the ratio of those actions which are used as is, and those used which are known to be sufficiently hard. I also would like to know how many of these actions are found suitably hard with no secondary heat treatment.

Also, I have often wondered why there seems to be so many 1909 bottom metal parts available. I sort of suspected that it's because the receiver set back or was soft and scrapped.

As I said, I have heard many stories, which my personal experience did not match - specifically with the 1909 Argentine. I have had other military mauser actions which worked out fine - so far, especially the VZ 24. If it happened once, I could figure that was unusual, but to find at least five different actions over a period of more than 20 years, which were all too soft to use actually means something to me. I hate to admit to being such a slow learner. Others can rationalize around it if they want.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
I remember many moons ago when I bought 5 of them in a store for $75.00 each.

I think $350 is a bit high considering I have a one (no bottom metal) barreled with a new E.R. Shaw Barrel in 7 x57 with a new bolt handle that I can't sell for $350.

Might be the barrel.

Terry

Might be, but its Brand new and Professionally installed. Where are you going to get a 1909 with a new bolt handle and a new 7 x 57 barrel already installed for that price????

FWIW....selling a raw action is not difficult.....however, just try to add a bolt handle to it and recoup that cost!!!!!....it won't happen likely and the more you upgrade an action the less likely you will sell it except for a "giveaway" price.

Adding a barrel is a killer.....
separate them and part them out!

Vapo

That barrel was installed by none other than the fellow who developed the Heim action before Heim bought him out. Peter Noreen is his name. Bolt handle was put on by him as well. How can I tear that apart?

Kableuey

Do you still have all of your 1909 Argentines that are "set back". I will give you $20 apiece for every 1909 setback action you have, and you can even keep the bottom metal.