This isn't a gunsmithing question per se, but it seems that much of the expertise on M70s passes through this forum. I've run across a 1957 vintage pre-64 M70 FWT in .270 that the seller states is 99% plus condition (wood and metal). The ad also claims that the gun has been "test-fired only". Near as I can tell from looking at the pictures of it this seems to be a fairly accurate assessment. Now for the bottom line... The asking price is $1400. It seems like a high price at first, but I could almost rationalize it considering that .270 FWT's in this condition aren't growing on trees these days. What do you all think?

Bob

Prices are subjective, but I think it's about $250.00 too much. Check gunbroker.com, or some other platform for comparison.

Waaay too much money. Unless the tags are hanging on it, that rifle is worth 950 AT MOST. jorge

Jorge,

I'll admit to thinking that $1400 was a little high for an asking price for this rifle, but I think $950 is a little on the low side. If you have an "as new" mid '50s vintage M70 FWT in .270WCF for sale (or know someone who does), consider it sold! Not really, but if was in the market for one right now...

I know we all read posts here about the occasional "mint" pre-64 selling for $500-600, but I think prices like that are the exception rather than the rule. And I think your $950 FWT falls into that exception category, at least from what I've seen (which admittedly is less than many). Seems to me packrat's figure is a little more reasonable, but what do I know??? That's why I had to ask!!! Keep the price estimates coming!

Thanks,
Bob

Too much. I'd say about $750. There was an early 60's (pre64) near mint 270 Featherweight at the last Houston show for $675 with a Bushnell scope.

[ 10-31-2003, 00:26: Message edited by: fla3006 ]

$1200 would be more in the ball park. Test fired only sounds like its from a dealer in Fla. Test fired is still fired and its not new. Check the listings on GunsAmerica and other web sites for comparable guns and prices.

BobvtHunter,

I just examined a pre-'64 M70 Westerner in .264 Win Mag that has had a single owner who is aging and consigned it in a local shop. Price is in the $1200 range. Condition looks good, and it is all original. This would be a '58 rifle I am told.

It also includes dies, brass (Peters!), boxes of original screw-turned Noslers, etc.

Not quite the same, but a comparable anyway.

jim dodd

fla,

I stopped by a small local dealer in bid D and he has a mint 3006 '61 feather that may be the gun you saw at the big H show. It has plastic buttplate, weaver bases and rings and vintage bushnell 4x scope for ~ $675-695. I couldn't believe the price when I asked, almost fell over, I may go get it just to put back since I mostly shoot a '61 243 feather. Is that a good price, I don't know what the 270 and 3006 feathers go for.

RJS

I have a friend that has a pre 64 M-70 in .375 H&H and he is asking $2,250 for it.

I asked why so much and he replies, "Well, I don't really want to sell it that bad."

Keep in mind, the pre-64 FWT's go for more $ than the standard M70. The average M70 "shooter" goes ~$550, FWT's ~25% more. VG condition, they run $750+. NIB?? However, I wouldn't pay more than $1500 for anything that isn't a Super Grade.

Calibre does influence price. Least to most expensive according to Fjestad, goes as followsgenerally) 308, 243/30-06/270, 264, 358.

Rich,
It is from a dealer in Fl. Sounds like you're familiar with him. Some of his guns are very over priced, pre-64 standards for example. But some of his other guns seem more reasonable. Do you know anything more about him?

Packrat,
Are you getting your figures out of the Blue Book? I stopped by the Barne's and Noble on the way home and checked out what the Blue Book said and your numbers are almost exactly what is listed there ($1150). Just curious... Something in that neighborhood would have been my guess, but I wanted some more input.

Thanks,
Bob

[ 10-31-2003, 04:52: Message edited by: bobvthunter ]

I will just say that 1 shot or 50, it is used. If it comes with the box, hang tags, maybe 1,000 otherwise it is between 8-900.

Bob, I did check the Blue Book(17thEd), but I based my guess on what I see at gun shows and on-line. I have also found that prices vary with geography. I've made some of my best deals visiting relatives out of state. For example, M 71's go for $1000 to $1450 around here(same prices as the deluxe), but I picked one up on the East Coast for $800. It's crazy!

My rule-of-thumb:
-standard m70's $750 tops, unless it's a rare calibre, or in Vg to Ex condition
-20% to 25% more for FWT's
-magnums $1350 tops(the H&H's only)
-NIB I try to avoid b/c of the high prices(and I want a good shooter)
-Super Grades start about $1450

I avoid anything that has been modified, unless it is less than $350. The m70 action will fetch about $400 itself, once it is cleaned up. Last fall I found a M70 in .257 Rob for $875. It had been reamed to 257AI w/o having the barrel set back. Looked good too, but it also had a bent claw extractor. Somewhere along the line somebody had a problem with it. Tried like heck to get it for $650, but it didn't pan out. Overall, it looks as if prices on the M70's have come down a little the past couple of years.

I just picked up a 1961 M70 Fwt in 30-06. Paid $1300 for it. It came new in the original box, with both hang tags, owners manual, bolt wrapped in the wax paper, label on the outside of the box has the correct rifle description and serial number.

I figured that it is not easy to find something like that and if I paid too much for it (which I don't think I did), I will just wait a year or two and then it will seem like a great deal. They are not making any more of these.

Tim

Also, by the description in your post I believe you may be referring to:

www.daverifflegunsales.com

I am always surprised by how many "test fired only" Pre-64 M70's he comes across. I have had one friend that bought a gun from him and was very satisfied. I have had another friend buy a high dollar M70 from him and was very unsatisfied by the rifle and service. I have not personally bought from him.

You may also want to check out a couple of other places, such as:

www.pcfirearms.com

Good luck!

By the way, I have nine Pre-64 M70's (plus a 7x57 built on a Pre-64 action) and obviously think that they are great.

Tim

http://www.daverifflegunsales.com/

My .02 AVOID
The 99% original he sent me was a redo also with the wrong bolt.I promptly returned it.

As Shumba posted,just how many of these mint rifles are out there?

My take on price.If a seller has a buyer with
cash in hand who agrees to pay his price...That's what it's worth.

If that gun floats your boat...buy it.

Jeff

Packrat,
I definately agree that the prices of guns vary by geography. When I see some of these prices being thrown around about pre-64's selling for $600 in excellent/mint/NIB it makes me want to move! Here in northern Vermont I just don't think many of them were sold so on a rare occasion when one does show up in a shop they put a pretty high price on it. It's funny that you mentioned the prices of M 71's... With the prices that I had seen on the internet I thought that one of them would be out of reach for me in my current tax bracket (I'm still in grad school), but I was recently able to pick one up locally for $650. Much of the blueing is worn from the bottom of the receiver and the checkering (it's a deluxe) is pretty smooth, but mechanically it's nearly as good as new. I think it was carried much more than it was ever shot. I think as the internet becomes a more popular way to buy and sell guns that prices will moderate somewhere between the highest and lowest prices that are seen now.

Shumba,
That first address that you posted is where I had been looking. I don't know what he means by "test fired". Proof tested at the factory? Taken to the range once by the original owner? Thanks for the tip about other site. I'm becoming a big fan of the pre-64's as well!

That brings up a good point... How many of these internet dealers are there out there? I'd be interested to see some other sites that people might have saved in their bookmarks/favorites.

Thanks,
Bob

JeffP,

We posted at the same time! I meant to say something about being curious as to how many of his guns are refinished/restored. Looking through his pictures it looks like the stocks on awful lot of them are glossier than any pre-64 I've seen. But I'm not an expert (just a fan who still has a lot to learn) and I wasn't around to see them when they were new!

Bob

Bob
My FFL has a very good freind who works in
winchesters custom shop.Tony (my FFL) had received
for me several pre 64's,to that date all were
return.When I told him what I found (a 99% original mint pre 64 at the gunshop in question)he asked his friend to come evaluate the rifle.IMMEDIATLY he found it to be a redo.And with the wrong bolt.Which I was told was just a shipping error.

The barrel and action were high gloss blue...
The stock also a high gloss clear finish.
Long story short,I'd look elsewhere.Don't get in
a hurry to find one.Like used car salesman some
of these guys are just out to fraud you.I finally
found a good rifle and a good action to build
a rifle on.IF possible go see the rifle.If you don't know what to look for...find someone who does.

They are great accurate rifles.

Jeff

BobVhunter-I have delt with Mr Riffel out of Fla on a couple of occasions. I have purchased two 358 FWTs from him. One I sold to get something els the other is NIB. I have also purchased a Super grade 7X57 from him. The guns checked out as advertised.

Like Shumba I have a thing for the pre 64's esp the featherweights. I picked up a 99.9% one at Cabelas in 243 for $1050. I got one also a 243 in Alaska for $750. If your looking for a shooter then test fired only for that price is somewhat high. If you want to put it in the safe and hold onto it for the future increase in value then go for it. I'm willing to sell one of the 243's if your interested.

When your looking for a pre 64 M70 the guns from the mid 50's are my favorite. I have been told and heard from others in the trade that guns from the early 60's were assembeled from parts that were available and lack the quality control of their earlier guns.

If your serious about the M70 then Roger Rules book on the Winchester M70 is an invaluable tool. I believe the title is The Rifelmans Rifle.

I considered selling the Super Grade and the NIB 358 and contacted the dealer mentioned from Fla and he was quite eager to buy the guns for less than what I had paid him for them. I didn't accept his offer.

Be careful and look around. There are good M70's and bad ones out there just as every Corvette isn't a collectors item every Pre64 isn't either.

Decide if you want a shooter or a collectors piece and go from there.