Rate the Mauser actions

12 June 2005, 01:15

Would the Mauser fans please rate all the various actions,
(Argentine,FN,Oberndorf,Mexican,Siamese,Chech,33-40 etc....)

as to quality and which you would prefer to use to build your next rifle with. And which are best for a big bore.

Elmo

12 June 2005, 01:22

Gringo Cazador

this should be a long thread before it's over, but interesting.

would be hard to rate and I doubt very many of us have qualifited opinion, I sure as heck don't But you'll get some emotional opinions.

12 June 2005, 01:33

elmo

Aw Hell, Billy

I don't really care about any of thi....

Uh... wait a minute.

OH NOTHING MA....JUST LIGHTIN' FIRES UNDER CURMUDGEON BUTTS

rEGARDS

eLMO

12 June 2005, 02:16

Gringo Cazador

Elmo,

Ok, heres my unqualified opinion.

1) Square Bridge of any kind
2) FN, Sears, western auto, Wards or simular
3) Argentine
4) Bruno/VZ 24
5) Mex

12 June 2005, 02:20

schromf

Aren't mauser actions like girls, I like them all just some more than others!!!!!

12 June 2005, 02:20

vapodog

The only Mauser actions I'm going to use again are the post war commercials. FNs, interarms, Santa Barbara's and those used in the J C Higgens, Brownings, and other models using post war actions.

This is because of pure cost....it's far too much to convert a Military 98 Mauser.

12 June 2005, 02:25

jeffeosso

mexican and date code pre-ww2

commerical

vz

jeffe

12 June 2005, 02:26

Gringo Cazador

Vapodog.........your so right, it does cost a ton to do a military.

I made my mind up the other night, after I get this bruno done, its my last mil 98. The next one I do is going to be on a legacy sq bridge 300 dollar rough as hell I don't care.

12 June 2005, 02:33

schromf

Lately I am more interested in commercial post WWII for building. This doesn't mean I favor these really just they end up costing less to put together a quality rifle with. They cost more up front, but a lot less work in the long run.

If the mauser god bequeathed me a gift, I would want a trunk full of G33/40's. Then I would started on building one of each: 7x57, 257 Roberts, 6.5x55 and eyeballing how whether a 9.3x62 and a 30-06 would work out.

WHich would keep me pretty much busy for the next 5 yaers or better.

12 June 2005, 02:42

jens poulsen

Here in Denmark it`s very difficult to find the original Oberndorf commercial action( I have a few) but that`s still among the topleage and then those made by DWM and FN in that order!
The rest won`t get a second glanze from me!

12 June 2005, 03:04

vigillinus

early postwar FN with C ring

12 June 2005, 07:19

Woodjack

Depending on your budget,In this day and age I would not build a high grade custom mauser($12K and upwards) unless it was on a new action. Chrome molly is the way to go.Why save $2000 out of $15000. that is a compromise in the whole project.By the time you tart up and old action it becomes less economically sound.You would not buy a 2005 Porsche or Mercedes if it had just a new skin wrapped over the chassis/engine/tranny of a 1960 model would you?If you would, then Read no futher because it does not apply to you.
Now you have to decide how much you would like to spend.
Granite Mountain Arms costs about $3000.great for the money,with good improvements over the orig. 98.
The most highly regarded 98 action on the market is the Hartmann Weiss,What stops most is the price,they hesitate at $6000.Strange thing is they only make the Kurtz and Magnum length,no STD for some reason.Granite do make STD length.
The most highly respected guys in the custom gun industry (Jerry Fisher,Ralph Martini/Martin Hagn, Darcy Echoles, Ted Blackburn)smile when you mention H&W.
I myself had a good feel a the 2005 SCI and Custom Gun makers Guild show at Reno. I looked at rifles from H&W themselves and from other guys that used The H&W action, I need no more convincing. It is H&W or Granite for me

12 June 2005, 08:27

z1r

quote:
Originally posted by vapodog:
The only Mauser actions I'm going to use again are the post war commercials. FNs, interarms, Santa Barbara's and those used in the J C Higgens, Brownings, and other models using post war actions.

This is because of pure cost....it's far too much to convert a Military 98 Mauser.

Yeah, that's a good idea, sacrifice quaity for ease of assembly and to save a few bucks. INHO, you are pinching pennies on the wrong component. Especially Santa Barbaras, sheesh! the FN (JC Higgins) are the best of this lot you described.

Jack Belk once said something to the affect that the Oberndorf, Brno, Styer, and FN were all good action when they were made. But, that you need to judge each action for what it is now, not when it was made. I pretty much agree.

12 June 2005, 09:28

Stryker225

quote:
Originally posted by Woodjack:
Depending on your budget,In this day and age I would not build a high grade custom mauser($8000-$15000) unless it was on a new action. Chrome molly is the way to go.Why save $2000 out of $15000. that is a compromise in the whole project.By the time you tart up and old action it becomes less economically sound.You would not buy a 2005 Porsche or Mercedes if it had just a new skin wrapped over the chassis/engine/tranny of a 1960 model would you?If you would, then Read no futher because it does not apply to you.
Now you have to decide how much you would like to spend.
Granite Mountain Arms costs about $3000.great for the money,with good improvements over the orig. 98.
The most highly regarded 98 action on the market is the Hartmann Weiss,What stops most is the price,they hesitate at $6000.Strange thing is they only make the Kurtz and Magnum length,no STD for some reason.Granite do make STD length.
The most highly respected guys in the custom gun industry (Jerry Fisher,Ralph Martini/Martin Hagn, Darcy Echoles, Ted Blackburn)smile when you mention H&W.
I myself had a good feel a the 2005 SCI and Custom Gun makers Guild show at Reno. I looked at rifles from H&W themselves and from other guys that used The H&W action, I need no more convincing. It is H&W or Granite for me

What's different about H&W actions?

12 June 2005, 12:19

TC1

Military actions I like
1909 Argentine
VZ-24
1910&1936 Mexican small rings

Another with a great reputation that I would like to own, but have no experience with
G33/40

Commercial actions I like
F.N. and BRNO 21&22

These aren't rated, just ones I like.

One thing that does throw me for a loop though. When people start talking about building a custom rifle and then talk about trying to save money. It's alway's looked like I was trying to save money when the rifle was finished when I tried it(IMHO). It doesn't cost that much to convert a military action for a sporting rifle in the grand scheme of things. Custom rifles ain't cheap. If I was willing to let the price of the action work dictate the direction of my project, I'd just take the next logical step and buy a rifle off the shelf and be done with it.

Terry

12 June 2005, 20:22

tsturm

VZ-24, G33-40 = made by BRNO

13 June 2005, 00:14

Paul B

I just recently picked up a barreled Mauser action by Husqvarna. It's a non-military gun but has the military style safety and apparently a military style trigger that has been nicely converted to a single stage type. The fellow I got it from said he thought it was made around 1947, but as it doesn't have the "C" ring, I'm guessing closer to 1950. It's drilled and tapped for receiver sight, but not for a scope. The action is about as smooth and slick a Mauser as I've ever handled.
Anybody have an idea of how I can date this action?
Paul B.

13 June 2005, 01:08

schromf

Husky's did several different models. I am away from my reference stuff but the Model number, can place it in the period.

Here is a link: http://www.pettsons.net/m640.html

It gives serail numbers on the post War models, the 640 series were 1944 until 1957, the 1600 series were introduced in 1953, the 1900's were mid 1960's until end of production in the late 1970's.

There was a couple of years overlap on the 640's and the 1600 series rifles.

Hope this helps

13 June 2005, 18:33

KurtC

Military

Any German, Czech, FN or Austrian action made after 1924. Avoid German actions made between 41 and 45.

Early actions such as the Argentine, have different metallurgy. You will have to deal with the issue of heat treatment or casehardening if you mess with it.

Commercial

Oberndorf, Brno and FN in descending order. Sako and Husky fall in with FN.

13 June 2005, 21:15

El Deguello

quote:
Originally posted by Gringo Cazador:
Elmo,

Ok, heres my unqualified opinion.

1) Square Bridge of any kind
2) FN, Sears, western auto, Wards or simular
3) Argentine
4) Bruno/VZ 24
5) Mex

Pretty much agree with this ranking.

13 June 2005, 22:44

Paul B

quote:
Originally posted by schromf:
Husky's did several different models. I am away from my reference stuff but the Model number, can place it in the period.

Here is a link: http://www.pettsons.net/m640.html

This was extremely helpful. I thank you. I'm thinking mine was made around 1952 0r 53 based on the information you gave. Again, thanks a lot.
Paul B.

It gives serail numbers on the post War models, the 640 series were 1944 until 1957, the 1600 series were introduced in 1953, the 1900's were mid 1960's until end of production in the late 1970's.

There was a couple of years overlap on the 640's and the 1600 series rifles.

Hope this helps

14 June 2005, 06:10

Mauser98

I've got a Columbian military Mauser in .30-06. It was made by FN. No C-ring.

Where would it fit in list of quality actions? Or would it??

14 June 2005, 08:34

Atkinson

The G33-40 is a true small ring action and very much sought after..It is for 30-06 and below type cartridges and would be my pick...

The Argentine 1909 is an excellent action..

A Mod 98 is a better action than any FN IMO, I have seen some FN develope headspace but only when used with hi intensity cartridges like the 7 stw etc..but I like them and use them, in fact I am presently building a 416 Rem, 10.75x68 and a .404 Jefferys on FN comm. actions.

VZ 24 and 33s are nice actions..

My pick of any Mauser or bolt action for that matter would be the 1935 Chileian...

The only downside to a Mauser is your talking a big financial investment to do one right, but that suits me fine, a good rifle is my thang!!
Most of my rifles are FNs and Mod. 98 chileians.

I have stocked a number of G33-40s for myself, mostly in 7x57 and 257 Robts,, but someone always grabs them up as fast as I can finish them..

the best factory comm. Mausers ever produced to this day is the Brno Mod 21 and 22 (manlicher)..double square bridge rifles that are in custom rifle class....

14 June 2005, 08:58

22WRF

Ray

If the Brno 21 is the best commercial action, why isn't it being made today?

How much should a "stocked up" g.33/40 go for?

14 June 2005, 09:08

elmo

Good stuff guys.

Ray

What's all involved to "do one right"

Kurt

What's significant about pre and post 1924?

Regards

Elmo

14 June 2005, 09:30

KurtC

Elmo,

1924 saw new versions of the 98 by Brno and FN, with improved metallurgy over the WWI era models. The newer German models didn't start until the '30s, so 1924 is a good reference date for modern 98's.

14 June 2005, 09:37

lb404

Ray, whom would you suggest to work over a half dozen Mauser actions? I don't need a Hartman and Weiss quality. I like Tom Burgess work, I just don't think I will live long enough to see them all done by him. Is Jack Belk still working?

14 June 2005, 09:44

schromf

Ray,

Do you like the Persian BRNO's model 98/29 ?

These are nice actions also.

I like Argentine's but their soft, if I ever do another heat treating is a must, I would rate the mexicans the same.

There is nothing wrong with a 1930's banner commercial Mauser original, I am still kicking myself for not picking up one of these a few years ago for $600 and it was mint. Guess I was being stupid or cheap.

14 June 2005, 10:29

z1r

lb404,

Tom has/had a 1909 action given his full treatment for sale. No waiting just click the buy now option.

14 June 2005, 16:10

1894mk2

Not sure what's so hugely expensive about an 09 action for a custom. OK they do need a bit of work but the finish and looks of them is unbeatable - I have 4. I have space for 3 more projects which will be one ZG47 and two 21/22s.

15 June 2005, 07:36

Thumpper470

I have a Tom Burgess 09 Argentine action for sale.

15 June 2005, 20:29

elmo

Thumper

What do you want for that action????

Elmo

16 June 2005, 06:05

sbhva

quote:
Originally posted by Paul B:
I just recently picked up a barreled Mauser action by Husqvarna. It's a non-military gun but has the military style safety and apparently a military style trigger that has been nicely converted to a single stage type. The fellow I got it from said he thought it was made around 1947, but as it doesn't have the "C" ring, I'm guessing closer to 1950. It's drilled and tapped for receiver sight, but not for a scope. The action is about as smooth and slick a Mauser as I've ever handled.
Anybody have an idea of how I can date this action?
Paul B.

If the original barrel is still on the action, I can tell you the year of production from the serial number.

16 June 2005, 11:22

Atkinson

WRF,
Cost of production would be prohibitive today to produce a Brno 21 or 22...CZ purchased what equipment they had, but the town would not let CZ use the Brno name...I think a bomb from a B-17 pretty much put Brno to rest...I suspect that Alf could give you better information on the History of Brno..He mostly posts on the Africa thread...

Lb.404,
Burgess would do great work, but anyone thats worth his salt is way behind...Not many left today, no money in it,,,,I get them surface groung and then hand finish them with hones so that I can get them done in a reasonable amount of time...Surface grinding usually runs about $50 to $100....

16 June 2005, 15:06

1894mk2

quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
I get them surface groung and then hand finish them with hones so that I can get them done in a reasonable amount of time...Surface grinding usually runs about $50 to $100....

I keep on reading about surface grinding all these actions - will someone please tell me why? As far as I can see my 09's merely have the rear bridge machined to accept a (custom) mount and that's it....

16 June 2005, 19:48

schromf

1894Mk2,

It is usually done to remove the guide for the stripper clip, whick makes the rear scope mount problematic ( not impossible just more difficult).

Once you get fiddling around removing that metal the job looks better if you do it all not just part way. THe other benefit is Argentine actions are hard to find in pristine condition. If you start with a not so pristine as most of us do, surface grinding cleans the action up 100%, no small nicks, rust etc. SO it makes for a more professinnnal job.

16 June 2005, 21:12

1894mk2

quote:
Once you get fiddling around removing that metal the job looks better if you do it all not just part way. THe other benefit is Argentine actions are hard to find in pristine condition. If you start with a not so pristine as most of us do, surface grinding cleans the action up 100%, no small nicks, rust etc. SO it makes for a more professinnnal job.

Must have been lucky as mine are clean and still have all the 'Deutche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken etc etc' which IMHO makes the 09 so desirable. The ZG47 may be a better action but the writing is less attractive...

16 June 2005, 22:28

Paul B

quote:
Originally posted by sbhva:
quote:
Originally posted by Paul B:
I just recently picked up a barreled Mauser action by Husqvarna. It's a non-military gun but has the military style safety and apparently a military style trigger that has been nicely converted to a single stage type. The fellow I got it from said he thought it was made around 1947, but as it doesn't have the "C" ring, I'm guessing closer to 1950. It's drilled and tapped for receiver sight, but not for a scope. The action is about as smooth and slick a Mauser as I've ever handled.
Anybody have an idea of how I can date this action?
Paul B.

If the original barrel is still on the action, I can tell you the year of production from the serial number.

The number is 1177XX, but it is on the barrel and not the action.
Paul B.

16 June 2005, 23:23

Dago Red

1894,

One big reason to surface grind is if you are going to a scoped rifle. It might not be necessary, but if you check the action and find the surface is out of alignment with the bore, even by little amounts, then grinding trues it all up.

I have one that looks real nice and probably wont' take any grinding to clean up, I am hoping to make it an open sighted rifle of some sort, maybe with a cocking piece peep.

Red

17 June 2005, 06:47

sbhva

quote:

The number is 1177XX, but it is on the barrel and not the action.
Paul B.

The barreled action was made in 1951. Most likely it was originally a US model '51 Hi-Power, but impossible to know without the original stock. The serial number on the barrel instead of the action is correct for a Husqvarna rifle.