I personally would not use one. but my wife is very recoil sensative so I thought it might work. Just read some gun rag that said with the new bullets on the mkt and good shooting it might work on a lung or neck shot. Now I've chased a lot of .22-250 shot deer and it not easy. BUT my big concern is the loss of vel in an 18 1/2 bbl. It is the new I bought from the old man, NIB model 7 for 250.00 It was all I could afford, but I would really rather a .243 for her. Don't want to start a controversy on the .243 iyt was my only rifle for 15 years and I know what you can do with one. Any positive imput on the .243 would be appreciated.

Have used the Nosler 60 grain partition in 22-250 and in 223 (20" barrel).

Works much better than the NBTs or other soft points.

Careful choice of impact point makes it a decent choice for heart/lung shots at reasonable range in open places.

.358,

Having seen the damage this round inflicts on its opponents, I would have to vote against the use of this caliber on game animals regardless of bullet used. I think it is just too light to make clean humane kills. This is not to say that it isn't a good round, it is a great little round. I just don't think it is a suitable round for big game where humane kills are sought.

A .243, 257 Rob or 7X57, properly fit to your wife, and a decelerator pad is probably a much better choice. Teach her good shooting positions and these calibers will do her well...

Good luck,

Malm

Gotta agree that .223 is awful light for deer. You have a real narrow margin of error with that round. Not saying it cant be done because in my younger days I did it...dont ever think I will do it again though. Real easy to wound with...I got lucky with my second shot. I wont put myself in that situation again.

Friend...use what you can hit with, but have enough respect for the game to use enough gun.

swede

I really can't see using a .223 for deer, it's much too light. There's just not enough energy there to assure a good, humane kill and I think hunters owe it to the animals that they hunt to use a cartridge and bullet weight and type of sufficient energy to kill in one shot when hit properly. To me the .223, even with a proper hit will not always do this, and will leave wounded animals.

As for the .243 Win., that is a horse of a different color. We have used these for years on Blacktails in the Pacific Northwest and their performance has always been quite awesome. These deer do tend to be on the small side, but I would not hesitate to use a .243 on larger deer.

Hve you considered the 6.5x55 at all ?? It is low recoiling and will kill out of all proportion to it's size.

I have used the 6PPC a lot for deer and pigs, I have never had an animal take more than one stap, and that was backwards!
I have always been very, very careful with placing my shotswell with this rifle though.
I use 70gn ballistic tips at the moment, though I am going to try partitions and X bullets too.
The 6PPC is not as fast as the .243win, though it still has more terminal energy than a .223, and almost no reciol.

...works for me...

Since the gentleman asked for opinions on the .243 on deer here you go. Load up or buy Federal premiums stoked with the 100 gr. Nosler Partition bullets and don't worry about a thing. This is waht my recoil-sensitive mother uses, and if the full 3000 fps laod is too much, back it off to 2700 and it will kick no more than a .223. I have seen this load and bullet harvest everything from p-dogs to big mule deer, it works great and the partition bullet gives you a little room for error with a shot that might be raking or through the shoulders, it will take out both shoulders of a big deer and still exit, turst me, I've seen it happen time and time again. Both heavy bones will be broken and a nice exit wound will be there. I have also seen this round penetrate mule deer from chest to ass and the bullet keeps going, that's at 200 yds. I'm not BS'ing anyone here, these are my experiences with the .243. If a good shot is shooting it, it is a good choice for deer.
Yardbird

Don't bother with a .223 for your wife if she regularly hunts in Kansas. That caliber is not legal for big game hunting here.

The 223 is really not a good choice for deer, even with a nosler partition. But if it is a choice between letting her hunt with a 223 or not hunting, I would let her take the 223 with noslers.

.358,

It seems that you already bought the .223 but it's not deer season yet! Unless the wife has just shot the .223 and is experianced with the .243 consider that you got a good deal on the .223 and try to trade again.

If you run the recoil numbers a full .223 load a 3200 fps with the 60 gr bullet makes 6.4 fps of recoil velocity and a 85 gr .243 bullet makes 7.9 fps of recoil velocity at 2800 fps with 32 grs of powder in the same seven pound rifle. Nosler makes an 85 Partition as well. It's recoil velocity that gets me and not energy and we are talking only 6.8 ft pounds of recoil energy here for the .243.

I shot a buck once at 100 yds with a similar load to that .223 and made a perfect shot. Our problem was that it was that the conditions were not perfect. It was getting near dusk and it was raining. The bullet did not exit and the buck ran off along with a large bunch of his does. There was snow but tracks everywhere. We never found it and we were back there at dawn the next morning.

Of course I violated the rules. If I had perfect conditions we would have found the buck, maybe. Too bad my dad did not get a 180 in it with his 06.

[ 03-14-2003, 21:41: Message edited by: Savage99 ]

I'd make sure she is not NOISE sensitive. A few shots without hearing protection will build a flinch a lot faster than moderate recoil.

If she truly is recoil sensitive, I'd think long and hard about a CZ in 7.62 x 39. If I had a .223 on hand, I'd think about rebarreling to .25 Copperhead (.223 necked up to .25 cal.)

yes i agree check out the 7.62x39 or the 250 savage

I have shot several hundred plainsgame and quit a number of deer and antelope with the 222 and 223 over the years, mostly culling and my kids killed their first few animals with the 222, and all with excellent success, never lost an animal and mostly were heart, lung shots and mostly with the great 60 gr. Hornady H.P. and soft point....

Shot placement is critical and must be in the heart lung area, and if it is then you will not chase them more than 50 yards max...My 11 year old grandson shot his deer at 225 yards or so with a perfect lung shot, it went 20 feet and piled up, while I was about to shoot with my 300 H&H, but wasn't necessary....

About any gun is a deer gun, but with the lighter calibers one must modify his hunting methods to fit the caliber, if you cannot do this then a 223 is not for you...but at 100 yds. a 60 gr. Hornady in the lungs is deadly every time..I have several perfectly mushroomed 60 gr. Hornadys and 95% of them made and exit hole...

Bullet construction, proper bullet placement is imparative, caliber is secondary...but again one must pass up on those iffy shots offered in the field...remember these small guns do not leave good blood trails, so you do not want a tracking job. Also if you use a 223 or 22-250 you would be wise to slow it down to 2900 FPS.....

I'm not an advocate of small calibers, but they can be used effectively with a little common since, same applies to the .243.

But, it will take two of its deer friends to care for it if injured!!!! I have had great success with .223 out of my mini-14 using Matchkings on whitetails.
PS whatever happened to Judy and RMK???????

Why is there a big ugly Suburban on my screen?

Really nice view out of the back of that house. Good thing animals are color blind.

Look, all you have to do is let her practice with the .223, then give her a 30-06 when you go hunting. She will never notice! I know many guys that have done this with their wives, or kids.

500grains, exactly what i thought too. Scary, very scary. Bet the deer fall over from fear

Like Atkinson said, almost any caliber can be a deer rifle. Friend of mine had heart surgery and couldn't handle large recoil for a few years, he used a 22-250. He absolutely hammered the deer with that. He is in his 70's and laughs at all the gun rags and their 'you need a 50BMG for whatever' crap. He said the first few years he hunted a .22 was legal for deer. You just had to limit how far you shot.

It is NOT the gun thats a screwup in most cases, its the loose screw behind the scope. A bad shot is a bad shot with a 22, a 22-250, a 308 or a howitzer. 300 yard running like its butt is on fire shot is a bad idea with any firearm.

Oh and for those who are recoil and noise sensitive. DO NOT get a rifle with a boss/brake/whatever you want to call them. They will scare the crap out of a novice shooter. Yes it helps with recoil, but it makes it atleast twice as loud.

You'll have to forgive some of us who don't think the .223 is a good choice for taking deer. We tend to forget sometimes that there are other varieties of deer besides the large bodied mule deer which roam our hills. It was insensitive of me to assume that all deer are alike, so, to my friends in the east, my revised opinion is yes, anything that will take a large dog will work fine for whitetails...


Malm

358,
I might as well throw in my .05's worth as I have had 15 years experience deer hunting with the .223. During those hunting seasons the little Win Model 70 carbine,20 bbl,has accounted for 36 whitetails and 2 Aoudad rams. Now granted that where I hunt, Texas Hill country, the whitetails are not large,60-105lbs field dressed. The deer were taken at 125yds or less, all were neck shots except for 4. The Aoudad rams were lung shots, 1 at 210 paces(about 200yds was our best guess),young ram about 110 lbs FD, the other at 63 yards(laser rangefinder)full grown,about 200lbs FD. The 2 rams went about 50 yards before piling up. My bullet of choice is the 55gr WW softpoint. The whole key to successful deer hunting with the 223 is BULLET SELECTION and BULLET PLACEMENT and keeping the distance no more than 125yds. Other observations of note--The Federal 55's are too explosive, Rem 55 HP's are not as explosive as you might think. The trick I use is to get the animal to stop and look at me. If the animal is standing still, at a walk or just a trot--just whistle!! They will look right at you, put the cross-hairs just under the white patch on the throat and squeeze. I will NOT TRY head shots under any circumstance. Just my thoughts based on my experience over the last 15 years.
Ol' John

Thanks Hondo, I appreciate the input, makes a lot of sense. No one has yet told me what vel. loss to expect for the 18 1/2 bbl of the model 7. By the way I shot two ver large coyotes with on the way to work this morning. In Mo. we have a crossbreed called a coytdog they get big. I once trapped one that went 86 lbs these were not that big but I was impressed by the way they went down

358

RE the velocity loss look at this http://www.accuratereloading.com/223sb.html

As for the 243 it depends on the deer. I shoot up to the size of Texan White Tails with my 6mmrem and 90gr bullets at 243 speeds. With 90-100gr bullets then if the deer runs away and isn't found it will be your wifes fault or a total fluke.I really do not think that anyone could object to the recoil in an 8lb rifle.

I used to get all huffy about 243 now with experience I realise how good it is. Make sure the rifle fits you, you'll soon be reaching for it!

Although I believe the .223 is a little light on deer I have taken a couple of deer with it. Bullet placement is absolutely critical! When my 9 yr old daughter was ready to go deer hunting she already had a lot of trigger time behind my Remington LTR in .223 and was very accurate with it providing she had a good rest. She can easily keep them in 3" at 100 yds so I felt confident in her abilities to place that little 55gr pill where it needed to go! My wife kept getting pissed because there were fingerprints all over the big screen TV where my daughter kept pointing to the proper place to shoot a deer when we would watch the hunting shows on the Outdoor Channel .

This 8pt is her first deer....1 shot at about 50yds or so and he didn't go 50 yds.


The next evening she shot a big doe at about 75 yds and she only went 30 yds.

But!......I am in a quandry as to what I need to fit her with for a permanent deer rifle for her for the next few years. I am leaning to the .260 Rem or the 7mm-08.

358

My sons and I have found the .223 to be perfectly adequate for Missouri whitetail. The shooter needs a certain amount of patients and pick his shot. Lately we have found the WW 64gr PP works as well as the Nosler Partition, and is half the price. Our mini-14 is short barreled and the velocity reduction has not hampered our harvest results. Lots of practice helps. Good Luck!
Mule

Been here before too many times.
Yes it can be done, I've done it. Not proud of it. Wish I would have had a bigger gun but that Mini-14 was all we had that I was confident enough to hunt with come hunting season. IMO there are better rounds for beginner and recoil sensitive shooters, all starting at 6 mm and including several .25s and the 6.5x55. I'd look into a .243 Win and 100 gr bullets or a .257 Roberts.
If you do use the .223, make sure you pick a good bullet (not a varmint bullet and not military surplus or FMJ) and make sure she becomes very proficent with it and chooses her shots wisely.