Thanks in advance. For building a 30-06, or something derived from the 06 case, how would a 1903 Springfield Action be, compared to an Enfield p14 or p17? Which would be easier and more reliable?

Frank D

Either action will work great. Enfields are easier to find but Springfield actions require much less work. The Enfield is a much bigger action and heavier it is also stronger but that is not important as the Springfield will handle any sane, or not so sane load with ease. What it really boils down to is personal choice. I like the Enfields best. I think that is because it feels good to take somthing as ugly as an Enfield with the ears and all and re work it into somthing really nice looking. I also tend to like big guns, .375 H&H and such.

Be careful with the 1903. Some of the early ones had a problem (too hard I think) and are not safe for to shoot. I don't have the details, sure someone here does. It depends on serial number and manufacturer. It is well documented.

good luck

For the sake of us that cannot locate our old notes ... which early remington serial numbers are too hard?

Anyone have a link to that information?

On the posted topic ... rifles made from springfield actions can be lovely indeed!

From "The Book of the Springfield" by Edward C. Crossman

Springfield Armory 1903 Receivers
No. 0 to 800,000 are case-hardened
No. 800,001 to 1,275,767 are carbon steel, double heat treated
No. 1,275,768 up are nickel steel

Rock Island Arsenal
No. 0 to 285,507 are case-hardened
No. 285,508 up are nickel steel

The general consenus as I learned it about 40 yrs ago is to avoid Springfield actions below 800,000 and Rock Island actions below 285,508

I have one of the double heat treated actions from 1927 and it is the slickest,smoothest operating action you have ever seen. It is like polished glass.

Thanks for the great info......keep it coming.......

Go with the Springfield, you won't be disappointed. Done right, you will have yourself a beautiful classic rifle. With a milled trigger guard, stock, bolt mod and a rebarrel you're just about there. I'd go with the original chambering (or maybe 35 Whelen), but that's just a personal choice. Leave the cocking piece alone, Sprinfields just don't look right without them. If this sounds prejudiced, it probably is,I've got three of them.

Stick a low safety on it... or (gasp) a trigger slide... all my 1903and a3.//.. and 1 national ord, have slide safeties.s... I've got them in
257 r
257jls (xWSM)
30-06
300 win
358 win.

If it had to do it again, the 358 would have been a 35 whelen...

my suggestion is the classic 257 roberts, in a #3 24" barrel, and a nice piece of wood.

jeffe

I've got a Springfield custom rifle in 308 Norma Magnum.

It has a Williams QD bridge mount, Beuhler safety, spoon bolt handle, jewelled bolt, a Timney trigger, and an aluminum trigger guard and magazine floor plate. The trigger guard is engraved with the name "M.W. Bell." Serial number is partially covered by the mount but appears to be in the 3 million range. Original scope is a 1" tube 4x Lyman All American.

Has always shot everything you stuffed into it into less than an inch at 100 yards. Very, very smooth.

May not be worth anything ... never worried about it. First rifle I ever bought. Have always loved it. Cost me $125 in 1967. Will give it to my youngest son along with my Grandfather's 30-30.

If your springfield turns out anything like this one ... you'll treasure it the rest of your life.

Go for a 1903, the 1917 is superior only if you want a full length magnum. Look for a double heat treated action - they are actually stronger than the later nickel steel, and much slicker. Nickel steel was adopted because it was still amply strong and didn't require the complicated tempering process. Avoid the WWII actions ser. nos. over 3 milllion, they are really tough but crudely finished.

For the sake of us that cannot locate our old notes ... which early remington serial numbers are too hard?

Mike

All Remington Springfields be they 1903s or 1903A3s are of the nickel steel variety and are all work very nice and are safe for any cartridge based on the 30-06. I have two Remington 1903s and one 1903A3 and althought not as nice as the two double heat treated Springfield Armory 1903 ones I have they are still very nice indeed. The 1903 would be more desireable than a 1903A3 as far as fit and finish.

I too, would take a Springfield over an Enfield any day. One sure way to improve an Enfield is to place a Springfield milled triggerguard and floorplate on it.
This also does wonders for a 98 Mauser in my eyes.

Frank,

I support using the 1903 over the 1917 too, and I love the 1917. I also love the 1903 though, and it will be cheaper and easier to have finished up and give a rifle that is beautiful and great to shoot. The Enfield is a lot of metal for just a 30-06. And with the 100th anniversary of the 06 coming up I think that the 03 is the perfect rifle to do it in.

I have two 1903's and one 03a3, love them all.

Red

I built a fine .308 Norma on an '03 action, and it turned out great. Slight opening of the feed rails was required, after which it fed more smoothly than any bolt action I've seen other than the Mannlicher/Schoenauer, which will even feed empty brass with no bullet!!

Just avoid the low-numbered jobs. The double-heat treated action is the best of all the '03's!!

I'm happy to announce that just two hours ago I purchased a double heat treated Springfield Armory 1903. That totally makes my day

I am deeply hurt by you guys, you do not prefere my beloved Enfields!!!! Well not really I also have a .308 Norma on a Springfield action and yall aint gona get it from me!!!!.
Couple of things about the Springfield though. 1. Replace the main spring it is as soft and slopy as a spring in a worn out matress at a whore house. Wolf puts out fast lock time springs for around $10. You will not believe the decrease in lock time. 2. If you get one of the supper hard ones get the three fluted carbide drill bits from Brownells, they drill through those actions with ease. 3. The Endfield is rather large for a 3006 size cartridge. 4. Why don't you stuff a .35 Whelen reamer into that .358 Win.?

What kind of stocks are you using for the M1903 Actions? I would like to use a heavy barrel, and was wondering if there are any good synthetic stocks for it.

Frank D

I build my own stocks, there are some pictures of them in the Wildcats section of this sight.
Boy it must be real tough to have to play with double rifles!!! There is somthing about them that just grabs one if you know what I mean.
I am in the process of building one in my spare time. It is a slow process and I can not devote too much time to it.

Your Friend
Jud

Stocking a Springfield with plastic would be a sacrilege.

Thanks for the helpful info....I saw Springfield M1903 Actions referred to as Mark 1, they had some type of provision for making them semi auto, (I think??????). Anyway the serial #'s were in the 1,000,000's.......Are there any issues with these actions.....Or is it stand clear?

Just trying to gather info, and this is the best source for it.

Frank D

Frank,
That would be the Pederson device, depicted on this page:
http://www.odcmp.com/services/rifles/pipsqueak_pistol.htm

Regards, Bill

Thanks Bill.

From reading the article it seems they would be safe to use for building something with the M1903 action. They were carbon steel double heat treated.....

Frank,

You are welcome, and I agree with you - it seems like these modified "Mark I" actions should be AOK....

Bill

I have a sporterized MKI and love it. The action is slick and it still shoots 3/4 inch groups with 150 gr Ballistic Tips over 52 gr of IMR-4064 from the original barrel.

the MK1 action is fine for any cartridge approprate for the Springfield action. You can even say it is alittle lighter with the cut out.
Before you barrel the action up take the time to lap the locking lugs and square the action this will enhance accuracy. Also if you are looking for the ultimate in accuracy chamber the rifle tight. By this I mean chamber it so as you close the bolt on a round you can feel slight resistance that last fraction of an inch as it snugs up on the case. This means that in theory you have 0 head space, great for accuracy but if you are using various factory ammo not always the best idea. Your rifles tolerances end up better then the ammo manufactures and you could find some brands do not want to chamber.
Also when you bed the action bed the first two to three inches of the barrel. (Chamber end) most rifles do not shoot their best if the barrel is hanging by the threads of the action so bedding the chamber area usually works very well especially on the Springfields.
Hope I have been of some help!!!

Your Friend
Jud

I sporterized my Mark I ,in 30-06 no problem, very accurate.

I tried to reply to your Email but sometimes my Email screws up so if you do not recieve it call me I have a sporterized Springfield I am selling, cheep!! Got it in a package deal.
207-938-3595

JUDSON,

TRY ANOTHER EMAIL....DEMARPAINT@AOL.COM I HAVE VERY LATE WORK SCHEDULE THIS WEEK... I GET ONLINE FROM WORK FROM TIME TO TIME.

THANKS
FRANK D

[ 07-17-2003, 05:01: Message edited by: frank d ]

Leave the damn Springfields alone. They are an irreplaceable piece of American history. Sporterizing one NOW is a sacrilege.

I plan on getting at least one from CMP, and it will sure as hell not become some hunting rifle.

As a custom gunsmith if a piece of military history comes into my shop I tell the owner exactly that and add sell it to a collector.
Pristeen origionals are getting few and far between leave them alone!!!!! It is easy to find a cut up, non origional rifle at a gunshop. This is what you use to build somthing, not a piece of history. Very good point about leaving the origionals alone!!!!

I had no intention to butcher a piece of American History. I was looking at Actions, that were already stripped and torn apart. I have collector rifles, not in the greatest shape, but collector items just the same. Those I won't even shoot. They will be handed down to my son, and hopefully to his children.......I was only looking for something different.......

Good point anyway............
Frank D

Let's not get carried away with the sanctity of the Springfield 1903 and all it's variants. BTW, the tradition and history of the Springfield as a sporting arm also has a significance.

There are plenty of Springfield actions to go around. That includes usage for sporters, military aficiandos, wall hangers, parades, drills, etc....

GV

The Springfield is a variant of the '98 Mauser and, in some ways, is not as good. Late model Springfields also have stamped bottom metal that looks crappy.

You may want to consider a Mauser action for your rifle.

Mausers are plentiful and cheap. You'll have a much bigger choice of safeties, triggers, and other goodies with a Mauser.

Just my $.02.

I see a few Mauser Fans, there are several Mausers. Which are the better Mausers for a custom rifle?

Boy, some of you guys make me sick! You bring back memories of an old Springfield I built up many years ago: Buehler barrel, squared action, lapped lugs, BalVar 24 scope and a Herter's laminated stock -remember those? - Ended up with a 12 Lb plus 30-06 that would shoot like no bodies business. "All in the same hole" if you did your part. Like a lot of others, married life and babies came along and the Springfield went. The present owner still laughs if I suggest he should let me have it back!
As to Mausers to convert, I'd vote for the Czech's that are currently available. Not a great deal of collector value, well made receivers and still not terrible expensive. I have a Peruvian FN in 30-06 that I'm trying to decide whether I want to keep or convert into something else. Decisions, decisions!
Really, the Springfield vs Mauser controversy has been going on for a long long time - and both can be build into wonderful rifles. You originally asked about the P17 Enfield vs the Springfield and I personally would rate the Mauser over either but that is my choice and not to degrade either the Springfield or the P17.
You can do ‘small’ things to any of these actions that make vast improvements for a sporting rifle. Change the trigger or block the two-stage military trigger, change the main spring as noted, install a slide safety, convert the P17 to cock on opening, etc., etc - the list goes on and on but you must decide what you want in a rife - after all, is this not the real reason for having a custom rifle in the first place.
Good luck with your project and have fun!

Regards,

[ 07-21-2003, 15:24: Message edited by: 'Trapper' ]

FrankD,

I have rifles built on both actions. They both have their pluses and minuses. The Enfield actions are much heavier and will require alot more work to bring them into a "sporter" type configuration. But they are long and extremely strong and can handle any of the 375H&H length cartridges, Weatherbys, 416 Rigby...etc. My Enfield is a Winchester manufacured and I chambered it to 300 Win Mag. I believe the rifle is still heavy for the caliber. I may go a 358 Norma Mag.

The 1903 Springfield is a much "slicker" action and can be configured to a sporter with less hassle. Assuming proper serial numbered action(as mentioned earlier in this thread) they can be used on with the magnum cartrides of the 30/06 length. That being said I believe they are best when chambered into an '06 based catridge. Mine is a 35 Whelen, and I absolutely love this rifle. It is now my favorite and I'm wondering if the rest of the rifles in my cabinet are ever going to see action again! I took it Namibia for plains game and it was perfect. It feeds smoothly and the action is slick to work. It has a 22" barrel, walnut stock, 3x9 B&L scope and weighs 8.75lbs.

Good Luck on your project,
BigBullet

Go for the Springfield, in my eye some of the most beautiful sporters ever made are on the 1903 action.
MP


[IMG] [/IMG]

I realized I hadn't checked the serials on my Springfields so opened the safe last night and looked. Ones Rem. 03a3, no worry there, then the two springfields are 1.3mil and 803xxx, whew barely over the number there! :-)

Red

and 803xxx, whew barely over the number there! :-)

Dago Red

Anytime you get into too much of a sweat and you need to rid yourself of that action to get relief I have been known to help with the cure!!

Seriously, that is one of the finest Springfield actions made. I have an Oberndorf Mauser 98 made in 1933 that I would trade for one like it in a heartbeat. Those double heat treated Springfields are gooduns!!

Thanks for the offer. I think I can live with this one for a while.

You know what, I paid 425 for this one, with a 7x Leupold with the CPC reticle, included rechambering to .308 Norma, and military sling. I was in the shop one day talking to the gunsmith and he said,"hey, I have something you would like." It is the original military barrel, but somebody polished out the action and barrel so that they look like glass. Real great metalwork.

I would like to find a couple more like this to build off of.

Red