when rust bluing a gun, does one rust blue the barrel and receiver separately, or after they are together?

If I understand correctly, to rust blue, one applies a solution to the bare metal or otherwise induces the bare mmetal to rust uniformly and with a fine grain structure. the rusted piece is then boiled to convert the red rust to the black form. the part is dried, and carded, and the process is repeated until done.

how does one card the surface inside of the receiver?

Thanks

Hopefully some of the real gunsmiths here will step in, but I will give you my limited experience as a novice at rust bluing with a grand total of 4 jobs under my belt.

I have always blued the barreled receiver as a unit, but if you could separate them it would be better- I've invariably ended up with a fine but noticable bright ring right where the barrel meets the face of the receiver- my guess is that some trace of residual oil is leaching out of the threads during boiling, so it just doesn't blue as well.

I've never had to card inside an action as I always polish the interior bright and then apply a coat of laquer. If you're wanting it blued I would try degreased 4-0 steel wool wrapped around the end of a small dowel- just reach it into those nooks and crannies and rub away.

The biggest "secret" to rust bluing is that everything has to be absolutely oil free and be sure to boil in "pure" water (rain or distilled water).

Blue them seperately. Card the inside with steel wool wrapped around pop cicle sticks...or however you spell it.

Can be done either way but as the others mentioned seperatley is certianly better. If it is not done seperatley then your bbl threads begin life with a residual layer of rust as opposed to being carded and lubed, much easier to plug the bbl ends seperatley as well.

Make sure you plug the bore. You don't want that to rust at all.

Don

If only rust bluing was that easy!

Rust bluing is as simple as can be. The prerequisite is, as belaw says is cleanliness. The barrel has to be removed to get the oil completely out of the receiver and barrel threads. If it weren't for that I would leave the barrel on for bluing.

The other thing I do is give all of the metal a very fine sandblast. This allows the bluing solution to get a good bite on the first try and gives a much more uniform blue. That is the second biggest "secret" to the whole professional rust blue job. That and 20 years experience. ;-)

Roger

Roger, what kind of sandblast setup are you using? I am trying to find something small enough that I can use my little compressor with it. the large sandblast units want a pretty good airflow.

thanks.

Red

Red,

They all want a lot of air, but I get mine done with a 5 horse compressor. It wouldn't do for continuous use though.

I have a TIP sandblaster. I can't remember the dimensions exactly, but I must be about 36 inches wide.

Roger

Dago, Wholesale Tool has a polypropeylene bead blast cabinet complete with gun and internal light for less than $100.00. That, some glass beads and a $20 regulator from Lowe's or Home Depot will put you in the business with a smaller compressor. I cut a hole in one side of mine and installed an electical conduit fitting (2-1/2") to handle barrels. I plug it with a 2-1/2" rubber plumber's cap. You also need a shop vac hooked up or else you get glass beads all over the room and once that happens, every move looks like a Three Stooges movie less two stooges. Its like having a carpet of superfine ball bearings everywhere you decide to walk. Damn hard on the groin muscles sometimes.
BTW, thanks for the idea about a piece of gutter for boiling barrels. It really works well!

rust bluing is really very easy. I blue with the barrels attached. No need to plug the bore. This instruction gets repeated all the time, but I wonder how many people have actually had rust in the bore? Unless you get solution dripping in the bore, then you won't get rust. And if you have that much solution dripping, then you have bigger problems anyway. I hand sand to 320 grit and then blast with 60 grit glass beads and 100# air. Cabinet is soemthing like 30" or 36" wide. I would not use a smaller cabinet

I'll throw in my two cents. I have been rustbluing a barrel this week as a matter of coincidence.

Rather than sand blast I polish to at least 600 grit (over kill by most standards) and then apply the rust compound in on a patch that is only slightly dampened going over the barrel several times. This is well described on www.winrest.com. It is the one way to get a perfectly even coat on a highly polished barrel. Lots easier than sandblasting, plus I like a smoother finish anyway.

I also plug the bores using neoprene expansion plugs and bolts that I buy at the hardware store.

I wipe the barrel with acetone or alcohol after doing a primary degreasing with hot water and dish soap and I use a new pair of disposable latex-like examination gloves everytime I handle the barrel.

Brent

I use 320 grit silicon carbide at 20 psi. Looking at the metal after blasting it is almost imperceptable.

Not knocking your methods, Mark. But, I think 60 grit at 100 psi is pretty coarse. I would worry the bluing would wear off of the high spots pretty quickly.

in practice, blasting with the Brownells 60 grit glass ebads is only about a skosh coarser than straight 320 grit paper. I used to just ahnd polish and blue at that. A friedn told me he was blasting after polishing, so I tried it and liked it. What is does is give aslightly more "velvety" (is that a word?) look to the metal after the blue is on. It is hard to describe, but it is not coarse at all. THose glass beads break down and I guess that is why they do not peen the metal so much.

I polish to 400 grit by hand to be sure that I get all of the coarser scratches out. I then polish with 320 grit. When I blued at 600 grit in the past, I had trouble getting an even bite.I blued some pieces of metal at 320 grit and 400 grit and found th efinal finish to be the same and it was easier to get an even bite at 320 grit. Another advantage for me using the blasting is that the rust bite is more even for me.

I may see if I can take som emacro pics of a gun or two here at th ehouse and show what is looks like after blasting. You will see that it looks just like any rust blue out there. Kinda hard fo rme to describe with words-sorry. But you can barely tell the difference between a staright 320 grit polish and a blasted polish. One key thing is that I do not let the rust set up a long time and take agressive bites in the steel. I prefer more coats finer rust. This is more "velvety" and has held up very well to rough usage in the worst of conditions in a wide range of environments.

I know this was a poor description and appologize for it. I have to pull a rilfe out of the oil tank tomorrow and I will see if I can get soem close ups that show how the blue looks. THis method works for me and they way I am set up and do things. It may or may not work for others. We all are a little different. For instance I could not get a good stock finish with Tru Oil if my life depended on it. Hopefully a pic or three will give a good representation of the end results the way I do it

I've been using #180 glass beads which are the finest locally available at 25 to 45 psi depending on the metal's hardness. Even then it is a really noticable pattern change from finely polished metal but I tend to like a more satin finish on working guns.

the final look of a rust blue finish is a function of the rusting process and the polishing process combined. With a caustic blue, what you see before the blue is pretty much what you get. WIth a rust blue, the finished metal texture is determined by the bite of the rust. Polishing to say 400 or 600 grit will not change the blue finish appearance. This is because the rust creates the surface texture about equal to what it would be had you left it at 320 grit.

WHen you bead blast, you change the scratch pattern, but not really the surface smoothness. So yes, a bare metal blasted finish looks different to the eye than a bare metal finish that has been polished with sandpaper. The actual smoothness is the same, but the look to the eye is quite different. The rust attacks the surface finish, so the smoothness it what matters. It is an optical allusion on the bare metal surface.

I pulled an old barrel out and I am going to run a test this week. I am going to polish it in sections of 240, 320, 400, and 600 grits. Then I will bead blast one side of the barrel and rust blue it. Years ago I ran soem tests on scrap pieces of metal, but it will be nice to have the different finishes on the same barrel. Hopefully I will have it ready by next weekend and I can then post some macros.

Marc,
If you look at some of the old english and even some American blued barrels from the mid to late 1800's you can see quite smooth, almost glossing rust blued barrels (and browned). Certainly much more polished than 400 grit.

Any idea of how they did this? I have a few ideas but don't know for sure. One of the masters of this, Oscar Gaddy, passed away last week and I guess all his knowledge may have gone with him.

Brent

You can get anywhere from a slight gloss blue black finish to a dead matte black with a slow rust bluing solution...

It depends on how long you let the acid pit the steel.

You should be able to buff a good slow rust blue up to a decent gloss once it has cured after a year or so. Of the few rust blued guns I've examined, at least one had a coat of real rust on it- thick- if you scratched the surface an orangebrown streak would be left... Rub some oil into the wound and it would disappear. This is what I am working up...

The sandblasting (Jim Baiar recommends fine garnet sand) takes the place of the acid etch- you do not have to "wait" for the texture to form on the steel. Personally, I feel the current slow rust blue jobs are thin- just color- no "real rust".

And yes, it is better to rust the barrel and action separately but you might be able to get away with keeping it together and boiling it in Simple Green or Oakite for 30 minutes or so for the degreasing...