What kind of groups should be expected from this gun? I shot it at 120 yrds and got 4 inch groups. To me I would think that is not to bad, but seeing how it is my father-in-laws he thinks it should be a tack driver. Anybody got any ideas on how to make it better?

Is it scoped, or just iron sights? If scoped, try using different ammunition.

If it's 'iron-sighted', try putting a scope on it.

Some lever actions do better than 4"@100yds, some don't.

Why does your father-in-law think it should be a tackdriver?

George

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Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

Yes it has a scope on it. I don't know why he thinks that, must be a rifle thing. We are using Rem 150 grn. core-loks. Might try something else. Might shoot it when he is not breathing over my shoulder

Try spacing the shots out 10 minutes apart. When the barrel heats up the tubular magazine doesn't, and since they are conected up front expansion can change things. Leave the action open and lean the rifle upright, it helps the airflow through the barrel. Load the rounds singly to help prevent damage to the bullet tips.

Also try just having your father-in-law shoot it, if it doesn't get the groups any tighter at least maybe he'll not pester "you" about "his" rifle anymore.

For a lever action gun 4" at 120 yds is pretty acceptable to me. If he wants tighter groups go with a bolt action, less headaches in the long run. Oh, have you tried shooting it at 80 yards or so? Then you could see if the groups were significantly tighter and it was something else causing them to open up at 100+ yards. That would suggest a change in ammo to me.

My Dad's 336 had a 4X Tasco in see through mounts. A buddy and I were shooting it at our range and the 170gr Remington loads did a couple of inches at 100yds, WELL then we switched to Federal 150gr loads and the dang thing printed one 1" three shot group and one 1.25" three shot group back to back. I only had about 4-5 rounds of that box left so I am saving them for a rainy day.

Shocked was an understatement, between the 4X scope and the fact it was a lever action with a less than smooth trigger! I have since put a Williams peep site on it and loaded Hornady 150gr RN for it. I haven't scoped it with these loads yet, just zeroed the irons at 50 yds.

Mike

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Victory through superior firepower!

Oh and another thing, when was the gun last given a thorough barrel cleaning? Or if your father-in-law asks, when was the last time "he" cleaned "his" gun?

Ricochet. Assuming you were shooting off sandbags at a bench, try placing the gun so the trigger guard/lever is up against the front bag. When I had a Marlin 30-30 it would shoot 2.5 to3.5 inch groups resting on the bag in the normanl manner. When resting with the trigger guard/lever against the bag, groups went down to 1.0 to 1.5 inches, depending on my hold.
If you were shooting off the hood of a pickup, well 4 inches ain't half bad. Seriously though, even off the hood of my truck, I've gotten groups of 3.0 inches or less.
FWIW. This trick also works with Winchester 94's, Ruger #1's and other single shots.
Paul B.

[This message has been edited by Paul B (edited 09-03-2001).]

Paul B has it right, most likely. Single shot and lever actions, or other guns with two piece stocks can be very tempermental about how they like to be held. Probably the best overall way to shoot and sight these guns in is to rest your left hand on the front rest, and cradle the forearm with it gently but fairly firmly. This more naturally simulates how you'll be holding it when you take a shot in the field, and may be better at ensuring you get the same POI from the bench as in the field.

These type rifles are not good candidates for using a tight sling, military style, to shoot with. A tight sling will also likely change the POI.

Of course, it also may just want another type of ammo, too. Every rifle is an individual.
FWIW, though, many Marlin lever guns will shoot MOA, though most people aren't aware of the idiosyncracies of the guns, so the guns don't often get shot to their full potential. M.L. McPherson has a book, Accurizing the Factory Rifle, that describes techniques that can be used to "tune" a Marlin or similar lever action, and the principles apply to other two piece stocked rifles as well. I know the rifle is a loaner, but just in case you like it, except for the accuracy you're getting right now, don't count them out until you learn their idiosyncracies, and how to get maximum performance out of them. They're great rifles.

I have a friend who sights in many rifles each year for others, and a LOT of people get humbled when they see him take their rifle and ammo and shoot 1" groups with it, when they usually shoot 6-8". He tries to tell them how to do it, but it's surprising how many won't even try when told. Mostly, though, these are guys who don't shoot a whole box of ammo the whole year long. That, naturally, doesn't help much either.

Hope this helps.

Hello,
Everybody always seems to need to know that what they spend money on is the best there is. Your relations are no exception. The thrity-thirty just has some limitations due to design. Bottom line. It is not a bench gun.

But there are some loads out there that can work wonders for this old cartridge. They use modern bullet styles. [read: spitzer] Mind you they make the rifle strictly a two-shot proposition. One in the chamber and one in the magazine. You might try one of these, I read about them in [I think] American Hunter about 5 or 6 years ago.

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Safety & Ethics,Accuracy, Velocity, Energy
Joe M

JoeM. Actually the 30-30 is an extremely accurate round. My Wincherster Model 54, a Mauser style bolt action, will do one inch with cast lead bullets and as small as .75 inch with jacketed bullets, and this with the factory peep sight. Rifle is too valuable as a collecter piece to scope, unless I can find the equipment of the period.
The big problem for accuracy with the round comes from the rifles it was chambered in. Still, I don't feel handicapped hunting deer with my old "94" and cast lead loads. Deer still die when hit in the right place.
Paul B.

My now since departed pre 64 Model 94 30/30 made an easy inch at 100 with 30 grs of 3031 with Speer 150's. Almost that good with hard cast. Good barrel, good machine work, good load technique-- accuracy. What's stamped on the barrel isn't really that important till you start trying to put them in one hole.

Just to keep everyone up to date . Took 30-30 out again today and shot Rems and Winchester 150 gr power points. Gun seemed to like Wins better. Got good groups at 80 yrds, little over one inch. Still comes apart at 120, but oh well. Did shoot about 100 rds in 5 different guns, haven't had that much fun in a long time.

I have several marlin rifles and they all shoot good groups, certainly good hunting rifles. I bought a used marlin 336 from a gunsmith a few years ago. It had been a rancher's gun, looks real rough on the outside, in fact the smith sold it to me on the proviso I never tell anyone where it came from.
I cleaned it up and put a receiver sight on it. Then I went to k-mart and bought some ammo they had on sale, Winchester 170 grains, for $4.99 a box.
Imagine my surprise when I took it to the range and it shot an inch at 100 yards, 3 shots. I had a friend there and he called it luck. So he shot it and got 2 inches out of iron sights. I shot a couple more groups and they averaged an inch. It is crazy what things happen when you lead a good life. Grin.
Marlin are great guns, try some different loads, that might help. Good luck and good shooting.

Riccochet, just a thought, but if your groups are good close, but go to pot with distance, it seems likely that this would indicate some imbalance in the bullet that gets worse with range????? I'd check the muzzle crown. Sounds like there may be a burr or ding on it. If so, a recrown may be in order?????

One more thing to check out, anyway.

A good 30-30 in any configuration should shoot 2" at 100 yds. with iron sights, if it won't then trade it off for one that will..

I have seen a lot of Marlins shoot 1" groups at 100 with scopes and a few with irons..

My M-94 will shoot mostly 1" grps all day long at 100 yds with irons. My 25-35 M-94 rifle with 26" oct. barrel will shoot 1.5 to 2"'s with irons...mostly 1.5...

the newer Win. 94's don't seem to shoot this well...the new Marlins do.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com