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I have a question as i'm researching some info for a friend of mine. here's the deal. he has an old wby vanguard in .300WM, early to mid 60s i think. he loves the rifle, and has killed most of his game with it. here's the issue. normally, the barrel is free floated (dollar bill test) and the gun shoots great. but where he lives in colorado and the way he likes to hunt, he prefers to have his harris bipod attached to the stock. when he attaches the bipod, his point of impact shifts about 8" at 100 yards. this happens whether or not the bipod is actually used, so legs up or down, it seems to be just the weight of attaching it does this. he did the dollar bill test with the bipod on, and its a no go, there is a pinch point. now to me, this is simple. remove the barreled action, take away a small bit of the stock in the channel, and keep checking fit with bipod.. once its free floating again, seal the wood to keep out moisture, and he should be good to go. right? he has been told by a local smith there near durango, co, to never touch a weatherby, the stock, nothing, he'll ruin the accuracy of the gun. is this a theme with wbys? to me, if the barrel is free floated, it shouldnt matter to the barrel if it has .001" clearance or .1" clearance (ignoring thermal expansion), since it doesn't touch the stock. am i missing something there? thank you, and please excuse the question if its too rookie, i'm learning  | ||
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I don't have a definitive answer, but I'll give you some opinions. First, I don't think that being able to slide a dollar bill between the barrel and the stock means one has a free-floated barrel. I suspect a lot of barrels vibrate (whip) more than that when fired. Second, with my match rifles, I commonly floated them by at least 3/8 " clearance all the way around. That is true with both my "across the course" hi-power bolt rifles, and my benchrest bolt rifles. Seemed to work fine on either, and I certainly didn't worry much about warpage between one match and the next. Some rifles shoot well with free-floated barrels, some rifles shoot great with "pressure point" bedded barrels. And years ago I had rifles which shot superbly with full length glass bedded barrels. I think the important thing is that once a person has a rifle shooting well, he should do everything he can to make sure the bedding doesn't change. I also believe that "make" hasn't got a damned thing to do with the application of physical science to the problem. Physical science does not change, no matter who is sticking the machine together. If the physical things are done correctly for that barreled action, the sucker will shoot, even if my mother-in-law did the work.  | |||
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He needs to find a new gunsmith. A dollar bill is .004-.005 in thickness. Barrel whip is often much more than that. .030 is about right for free floating...meaning 6-7 dollar bills worth Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Is that adjusted for inflation?  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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I'm thinking this gunsmith, the one near Durango Co, doesn't know much about rifles. Weatherby's in particular. _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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Your barrel is not free floated. Like others have stated the thickness of a dollar bill is hardly enough to be considered free floated. The barrel channel needs to be scraped out for more clearance .030" is a good place to start www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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Thats funny Mike!   Doug Humbarger NRA Life member Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 72'73. Yankee Station Try to look unimportant. Your enemy might be low on ammo. | |||
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I had this happen on a client's gun. When he attached the bi-pod, it was screwed down too tight and caused the wood to "bend" and touch the barrel. Jim Kobe 10841 Oxborough Ave So Bloomington MN 55437 952.884.6031 Professional member American Custom Gunmakers Guild | |||
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It's a far out possibility, but it could be that an "almost" floated barrel which passes the dollar bill test is actually acting as a barrel vibration damper, and the change is due to the weight of the bipod increasing the float. I am, in general, a fan of floated barrels, but when I am tuning a rifle, I generally follow the old Jack O'Conner method he espoused when I was a kid. Try some pressure first. Insert a cardboard shim at the tip. If that doesn'e work, try two thicknesses. Use something like thick target paper. If the pressure doesn't work, then try wood removal. It's hard to put it back, so be sure before you remove it. | |||
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Reminds me of the old carpenter joke..."I've cut that board 3 times now, and it's STILL too short"! :-) | |||
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Art, you're cheating! You are thinking the possibilities through. I don't think that is far-fetched at all. You could well be right. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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Art, thats a good thought, but once the bipod is in place, my friend tells me that the dollar bill test fails, so it is adding a pressure point. so for my own education, a free floated barrel starts at .030". if it is less than that, say, just a dollar bill test, the the barrel is likely making contact on the shot due to oscillations in the barrel. now, as long as this contact is the same every time, it should shoot consistently, yes? but if it will only pass the dollar bill test, not truly free floated, and wood is removed under a part of the barrel, enough so that the bipod will pass the dollar bill test, will this change the way the barrel acts at the shot when the bipod is removed? i know its a lot of questions, but i'm trying to learn a few things. thanks for your help | |||
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Yep and that's all the way around, 180 degrees.
Possibly but not likely. Shot to shot consistency is probably not that good. Most likely it will. Typically you plan on any change you make to create another problem until proven otherwise. Just try using QR mounts on a precision rifle. they do not go back in the same location. There is a tolerance to everything and it's controlling what you can that makes a rifle accurate
That's how we learn... Me included www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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