quote:

Originally posted by rem721:

quote:

Originally posted by M1Tanker:
Here is a fix a guy on Ebay is offering. Probably works but WOW is it UGLY!!!!

M1Tanker, that is more accurately described as Fugly! How many threads do you figure each of those screws has in the bolt? 3 maybe 4? I'd trust a properly brazed joint any day over 3 6x48 or 8x40 screws.

I've heard of the "belt and suspenders" types doing this as a backup to the factory brazing - before it parts. Any reason a smith couldn't drill and tap the hole through the handle and bolt body then cut the head off the screw for a slightly less obvious reinforcement?

"If someone were really nervous about their Remington bolt handle coming off, rather than adding insult (screws) to injuries (bad joints), they could always TIG weld the handle to the body"

There's plenty of situations where I'd be real nervous about my bolt handle coming off. Dangerous game, wounded animals, to name a few.

So if TIG welds are the answer, why isn't Remington using them to begin with?

quote:

Originally posted by rem721:
How many threads do you figure each of those screws has in the bolt? 3 maybe 4?

Do I remember an old pommy aircraft engineer telling me three threads will do? Those screws look better than a loose bolt handle

I've heard of 788 bolt handles comming off also.

Seems the way to go may be to give a new Rem a bit of a thumping first up. If it's a good joint that shouldn't hurt it?

I knocked one off a stainless M700 in .308.
Had a Holland handle TIG welded on.

Mine busted through the pot metal, and the solder job.

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So if TIG welds are the answer, why isn't Remington using them to begin with? Confused

Probably because tig welds are an individual operation and oven brazing is a batch operation.... Essentially....COST.....and they work hard to be economical!

It's extremely difficult in any company to make a change that costs more unless the quality advantages are abundantly obvious and I suspect the fallout rate does not warrant the more expensive "fix"!

I've been told by someone that toured the Rem plant that the furnace brazing operation is also the "draw" phase of the heat treat of the 4140 parts used for the bolt.
AMT c.f. actions had the bolt handle TIG welded in place. They were s.s., not CrMo.

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Originally posted by vapodog:
[Probably because tig welds are an individual operation and oven brazing is a batch operation.... Essentially....COST.....and they work hard to be economical!

Read that CHEAP, which Rem has the unquestioned record on . They calculate the amount that will be spent on warranty returns & the cost of doing it right. Guess which always wins? I've seen a bunch of them come off, many of which were hammered on after a hot load expanded the "3 rings of steel" into each other & locked up the action:
Hunt over.. . I've seen some that only had tiny spots of "braze" that had been holding the bolt handle on. But of course, the (bolt) design is a result of more cheap mfrg. from the start, as is the round stock receiver, the stamped metal recoil lug, sheet metal extractor, etc etc.

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:
I've heard of 788 bolt handles comming off also.

I broke one off ten years ago. Jim Wisener fixed it up for me.

When I was gun manager at Sportsman's Warehouse, I probably handled 300-400 rifles over the years (I also did several "store sets", where we put up and stock a new store for grand opening-lots of guns to check in). I only had one bolt handle come off on me the whole time. This was a rifle I just took out of the box for a customer to see, I put the bolt in the receiver, and then closed and opened the bolt in preperation to hand it acrossed to the customer on the other side of the counter. Upon opening the bolt, it came off in my hand with a poor cold braze joint. I was not "banging" on the bolt or treating it roughly. Kind of surprised me and the customer both...

I think I sent a couple other customer's guns back for "repair" with bolt handles coming off, but this was the only one I saw/did myself. So I guess (?) it doesn't happen very often? ...

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Originally posted by TrackersNZ:
"If someone were really nervous about their Remington bolt handle coming off, rather than adding insult (screws) to injuries (bad joints), they could always TIG weld the handle to the body"

There's plenty of situations where I'd be real nervous about my bolt handle coming off. Dangerous game, wounded animals, to name a few.

So if TIG welds are the answer, why isn't Remington using them to begin with?

I didn't say it was the answer, just an alternative to using screws.

If a Mauser bolt handle is TIG welded on, it is still strong enough to jump on like a pogo stick.

hey trackers, the "s" on the bottom side of the bolt handle stands for "Shit"

thats some piss poor workmanship IMO.

Lucky we had a second rifle in the truck and not too far away, otherwise there would have been a wounded Elk waiting for a while. I have 4 Rem 700's. (30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm Rem SAUM and 300 Win Mag) Apart from awful triggers (Out of the box.) they are quite a good gun, and usually reliable.

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Originally posted by TrackersNZ:
Lucky we had a second rifle in the truck and not too far away, otherwise there would have been a wounded Elk waiting for a while. I have 4 Rem 700's. (30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm Rem SAUM and 300 Win Mag) Apart from awful triggers (Out of the box.) they are quite a good gun, and usually reliable.

They are a good gun, but just like with anything else, occasionally something will go wrong. When you consider the sheer numbers of 700's sold, those with actual problems due to faulty manufacture, the percentage is going to be pretty low!

I think that this shows a Brazen lack of quality control at Remington!



they really need to get a handle on it........ ..........DJ

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I think that this shows a Brazen lack of quality control at Remington!

I solder think so, too, but flux it.

good post. did not know this was a problem with remington rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by rem721:

quote:

Originally posted by M1Tanker:
Here is a fix a guy on Ebay is offering. Probably works but WOW is it UGLY!!!!

M1Tanker, that is more accurately described as Fugly! How many threads do you figure each of those screws has in the bolt? 3 maybe 4? I'd trust a properly brazed joint any day over 3 6x48 or 8x40 screws.

Yeah, but I want BOTH! Screws AND glue........

I have 5 Model 700's and I have hunted an awful lot with 2 of them: a 1980 manufacture .30-06 and a 1983 manufactured .338WM. Those rifles are great, as is a 1983 Classic in .300H&H.
My other 2 700's are a .270 Sendero built in 1995... it's a decent gun. The '95 Sendero did not have nearly as nice a trigger as the older guns; took some work to get it, but it was okay after tinkering.

Lastly I have a 2004 "Classic" in 8x57. This gun shows how Remington QC has deteriorated! The screws on the receiver for scope mounting are not aligned with the top of the receiver! Only the fact that I bought a Leopold 2 pc base allowed me to set the scope properly, as the rear scope base being windage adjustable allows the scope to get properly aligned with the receiver/barrel. The scope ends up slightly off-set to the left side of the receiver but the fortunate thing is that the I'm right handed so this doesn't cause a problem!
Incredibly I have 2 buddies that also bought these "Classics" and one of those rifles had the exact same problem with the scope mounting screws being mis-aligned. The other gun had the screws drilled clear through the top of the receiver. When my friend mounted his scope he could not figure out why the bolt would not cycle. It took some fooling around to figure out that the scope mounting screws protruded through the receiver so they were interefering with the bolt.
My 2004 also had a heavy trigger that needed some TLC to get it down to a proper hunting weight, although it was adjustable.

So I look at all the new Remington's with a skeptical eye. Frankly I will not buy another new Remington. I believe the older guns made prior to 1990 or so are great anything 1985 or older I would not hesitate to buy if it had not been abused and it was a caliber I desired.