At what length does a short action become a long action? I am not sure if I am asking the question the right way. So let me try again. How can I determine if a rifle has a short or long action? Also, to determine if a cartridge is a short or long action cartridge?

Most short action cartridges will have an OAL in the 2.8" range. More or less the 308, 243, 284 etc. Then you get into the 7x57 based cases like the 7x57, 6mm, 257roberts. They are sometimes fitted into the short actions but are better suited for the long. An STD (long) is normally in the 3.34" which would be the 06 based like the 30-06, 25-06 270 and the std lenght magnums like the 7mmRem, 300wmag, 338wmag 458wmag. Then the long action which normally handles 3.65"

Many actions simply have a box in the back of the magazine and the action is the same for 06, or 3.65 you just remove the box.

Actions like the MKX and other mausers use the same action for all simply placing a box in the std magazine for 308, and making the box longer for the 3.65

Clear as mud?

I'd say that anything with its "parent" the 308 Winchester is really a true short action. So you have 243 Winchester, 7mm-08, 338 Federal, 358 Winchester and 260 Remington.

Anything with its "parent" the German 7x57 or American 30-06 is a long action cartridge. So 6mm Remington, 257 Roberts on the 7x57 and 270 Winchester, 280 Remington and 35 Whelen on the 30-06.

As a rule of thumb anything EQUAL TO OR UNDER 308 LENGTH is better served in a short action. You will find, it is true (usually converted Mauser actions) some 308 or 243 rifles on a long action...say Parker Hale from UK.

And as a second rule of thumb anything that is EQUAL TO OR LONGER THAN 7x57 LENGTH is a long action.

The "odd" lengths are such as 6.5x54 MS or the venerable 6.5x55 Swedish which are still probably best on a long action as, by design, they had the bullets seated well out of the case.

Alright, the 308 Win case is 2.015” and is considered short, any case 2.015” or shorter is short action. Agree? The 7X57 case is 2.235” and is considered long, any case 2.235” or longer is long action. Agree? Some cases fall between the short and long dimensions, i.e. the 6.5X55mm SM at 2.165”. So this cartridge can be chambered in a short or long action rifles? Now how do I tell if the rifles action is short or long? Measure the bolt? Is the bolt of all short actions say 5 inches or less? Do they make only one size (length) short action? How do I tell if an action is short or long? I would guess you could chamber a short action cartridge in a long action, but not the reverse. Is this a subjective issue or is it definitive?

quote:

Do they make only one size (length) short action?

I think you are trying to get it too simple. EAch action manufacturer will have ther own action dimensions. If the bolt and magazine are the length of a 308 pretty safe bet it is a short action. The m700 long action will fit from 30-06 to 375H&H the M70 long action will need to have the spacer box removed for the 375. Ruger long action will normally handle only the 3.34" The action they use in the RSM has been opened to allow using 375 type cases.

As I stated the MKX, FN etc use the same action for all three.

We won't add the intermediate mauser actions into the mix.

The industry chambered the short actions in 257R and 6mm so the oal was set short. They function better in a long action with the bullets seated out.

the 6.5x55 and cartridges based on the 7x57 can be fitted into the short actions. The 06 based can't. Most agree the 6.5x55 and 7x57 based are better suited for the long action. Even the 284 which was designed for the short action gives best performance in a long with the bullet seated out.

I read it that you are looking for a couple simple rules and they are hard to come up with. Let's see 06 & 375 based cases won't fit in a short action. After that things get gray.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
Then you get into the 7x57 based cases like the 7x57, 6mm, 257roberts. They are sometimes fitted into the short actions but are better suited for the long. Clear as mud?

You're overlooking the "intermediate length" mauser actions.

3.225" magazine box length.

Those are the perfect length for the "57" cartridge family, 257 R, 6mm Rem, 7x57 & 8X57 as well as the 6.5X55.

quote:

You're overlooking the "intermediate length" mauser actions.

Nope left it out on purpose. I did mention it in my second post.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

You're overlooking the "intermediate length" mauser actions.

Nope left it out on purpose. I did mention it in my second post.

W/all the M48 Yugos on the market I would think the "Intermediates" would be worth considering.

Every one seems to want to put .308 length cartridges in them, that's understandable, but still a waste IMO.

Better to chamber in the 6mm Rem, 257 R or other mid length cartridges that are somewhat hobbled in a short action.

The real SNAFU is trying to put STD '06 length cartridges into them.

quote:

W/all the M48 Yugos on the market I would think the "Intermediates" would be worth considering.

I agree 100%. I simply didn't want to throw the intermediate into a answer as to what was the difference between shor and long. My post was already making the water muddy anyway.

An intermediate would be fantasic for the 6mm or 257 Roberts etc. Hmmm darn I dont' need another project right now.

I have a Win. Model 70 featherweight chambered for the 257 Roberts. Is the rifle and/or the cartridge short, long? If I was asked, is the 257R a short or long action rifle? what is the correct reply? Some cases are obviously short and long, but when you get in the middle area, I wondered if there was a standard rule of thumb, a number.

I don't guess I'm understanding the question. As to your rifle. measure the mag box. What is the internal length. A long action will have a length around 3.4" If there is a box in the rear that can be removed to make it 3.4 it is still a long action.

I believe these are correct.
Screw spacing:
Winchester short action - 7.03"
Winchester long action - 7.57"

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

W/all the M48 Yugos on the market I would think the "Intermediates" would be worth considering.

I agree 100%. I simply didn't want to throw the intermediate into a answer as to what was the difference between shor and long. My post was already making the water muddy anyway.

An intermediate would be fantasic for the 6mm or 257 Roberts etc. Hmmm darn I dont' need another project right now.

I've nearly completed an 8X57 on a VZ500 commercial version of the M48 Yugo & I am amassing parts for a 6.5X55 on another. I already have a barrel, the action & a stock is on it's way via UPS. They are both being done in the Classic Oberndorf style.

I would LOVE to find a small ring M98 Mexi to do a Mannlicher style in 7X57. Since I'm not likely to find one of those @ a price I can afford, or even another VZ500, a M48 might have to do.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
I don't guess I'm understanding the question. As to your rifle. measure the mag box. What is the internal length. A long action will have a length around 3.4" If there is a box in the rear that can be removed to make it 3.4 it is still a long action.

I believe these are correct.
Screw spacing:
Winchester short action - 7.03"
Winchester long action - 7.57"

Aren't the "short action" M70s close to the Intermediate Mauser length?

I thought I read somewhere that the short action M70 measures 3.18" inside the magazine box.

The MRC 1999 SA is a true intermediate, magazine length is 3.125" and the fit into M70 SA stocks.