I have a m98 former voere rifle which hade a new shillen barrel installed. The rifle will not keep a good group; the chamber of the rifle has been small cut, giving higher velocity of most factory ammunition. My problem is it is not constant, it will shoot a good group now, and in 10 min it will shoot a 2 inch group, sometimes it will string sometimes it will shoot 2 shots close together and the other one about 3 inches away, then it will shoot a 15 mm group.

I am not a gunsmith, but the gun has been to 2 gunsmiths, both have bedded the gun, still the same. I have tried another scope, same thing.

What on earth is there still too look for, this is really making me creasy. Even the gunsmith don't know what to make of it, he checked the barrel and said it is okay. The stock is supposed to be a Macmillan. Is there somebody please who can give me a idea where to look. The action is not binding anywhere except the front and back. Which according to them the way it should be

Help needed pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeas

Flip

My first thought would have been the action moving in the stock, but then you had it bedded... Does the same happen with either a cold or hot bbl. ? The bbl. could be stressed and react to heat.

Assuming when it was rebedded they checked the barrel channel you changed scopes checked mounts etc. Did the rifle shoot pretty good before it was rebarreled? Does it happen only after you get the barrel hot? I'm not sure about cutting a chamber short or what that means to get higher velocity that may be the problem.

You can't tell if a barrel is any good by any sort of examination other than shooting the rifle. I had Echols build a 338 Win. Mag. with a Kreiger barrel, and as it turned out, that rifle just wouldn't shoot no matter what, so D'Arcy pulled the barrel and sent it back to Kreiger, asking them to replace it.

After examination, Kreiger stated that the barrel was perfectly within specs and otherwise A-OK. D'Arcy said to them, "That may well be, but there's just one problem -- it doesn't shoot."

So, the barrel was replaced with another Kreiger, and the second barrel shot like a house afire with the same ammo and scope that were used with the first barrel, in fact that replacment barrel shoots just about any load well, often under 1/2 MOA.

You can ask just about any accuracy-oriented riflemaker from Kenny Jarrett to David Miller, and the truth is, not every barrel shoots well, even the very best of them. And that's just one more reason why I hiss and moan about custom riflemakers who send out untested product to the customer. Without shooting the rifle, you have absolutely no idea if something so basic as the barrel itself or even the scope is any good at all. You will know a good barrel by how well it shoots, nothing more and nothing less........

But I wouldn't replace the barrel just yet. I would replace the scope and see if that doesn't cure the problem first. There are dud scopes as well, and I can't tell you how many times I've seen seemingly inaccurate rifles reborn and blossom into all-stars just by replacing the scope. In fact, I had two new 2.5-8x Leupold Vari-X IIIs that caused me no end of grief until I sent them to Premier Reticles for a reticle change, inspection, and repair. After I got them back those scopes proved to be as precise, reliable and satisfactory as any I've ever owned, and I'll never need to replace them with anything else.

AD

Had a barrel that wouldent shoot, wluged the bbl and found that there was a area where the slug pushed thru real easy, then the slug got real hard to push, shot badly. Had it replaced and shot fine. Slug your bbl and see if you gaet a constant pressure all the way thru.
Mike

You can go over to http://www.longrangehunting.com and they have some pretty good gunsmith who post there than may be able to help you out.

FWIW I don't let a thing like this bother me any more. If I know the action is well bedded and the barrel is properly free floated and I've tried three different bullets with three different powders each (with a proven scope) and none of the nine combinations deliver acceptable accuracy I shit can (trade) the rifle. One can chase it for ever and not find the problem. I rarely rebarrel it again...just trade it off for something new.

You be your own judge.

I'm with Vapo K-9 on this. All you can do is all you can do. You can throw more time and money at it. MAYBE you will find success. Or, you can cut your losses, chalk it up to experience and get rid of it.

Makes you appreciate the good guns when they come along.

Four best options are in my book. In order of cost.

1. Check your lug engagement and correct if neccessary

2. Sell it and use the money for a rifle that shoots ( previously discussed )

3. Pull the barrel, run it back a thread and recut the chamber ( may or may not fix it, good possiblity of fixing, but if the barrel is a tomatoe stake, you will have more money into it ). The reason I think you should try this as I don't trust what your original smith did, you said tight chamber on a 98 action, how he did this is curious, and I would have told you no, buy a different action if you want to play that game. The is zip advantage to tight chambers on a 98. There not benchrest rifles, if you had a solid no magazine version of a FN it would still be maybe.

4. Pull the barrel replace it with another. Use the Shilen for a tent peg, or a jack handle.

I would be talking to the smith that did the barrel install on this, bottom line he should not have delivered it to you like this in the first place, and since he did he should be working to resolve it.


If you get no joy from the original smith place an add in the local paper for him, with his shop number: HALF PRICE TRACTOR REPAIR SPECIAL !!! after a couple of days of him answering his phone send him a polite card asking if you helped his sales any.

If you need to replace the barrel find another smith, somebody who stands behind his work, no they aren't the cheapest, but in this case you would have saved money in the long run.

There could be a lot of things wrong with it, I would like to see the group patterns and I could probably determine what is wrong...If its stringing then thats pressure from the action or the barrel....Maybe you need to stabilize the barrel with a shim up in the forend, not all barrels like to be free floated...

Not all gunsmith can properly glass bed a rifle. I have seen more rotten jobs than I have seen proper jobs...

A "good smith" can determine what is wrong and if they cannot then find one that can!

Have you tried the basic basics. Have you thoroughly and completely cleaned the thing. How many different types of ammo have you tried. Have you tried to reload for it with different bullets and powders and cases and even primers.

And lastly, how well do you shoot other rifles??

quote:

Not all gunsmith can properly glass bed a rifle.

Ray, unfortunately the same statement goes for barrel installations. God I have seen some crappy jobs, thread it, chamber it, slam bam thank you mam, out the door. Does it shoot? Thats the customers problem.

I talked to the gunsmith, he will phone somebody and have another look at it, to put it mildly I don't believe the guy any more, I have found another gunsmith and will take the rifle to him.

I have cleaned the gun properly and still nothing, the other gun I talked to said it is not so easy to bed a synthetic stock, but he will have a look.

The gun sometime string then shoot 2 shots close and throw one 2 inches away, next time it will be a cloverleaves, there is no consistency.

Problem with selling the gun is I might not get a license for another gun, the gun laws in South Africa is very bad at this stage. A new gun is no option that is watt keep bugging me.

Just my humble opinion here, but what you describe mirrors almpst exactly yhe problem I had with an almost NIB Winchester M70 Featherweight in 7x57 Mauser. I knew the fellow quite well that I bought it from, so when he said it was a good shooter, I took his word for it when he said one inch groups with factory ammo was normal for the rifle.
I mounted a brand new leupold M8-4X scope on it and went to the range. I got groups such as you mentioned. After discussing it with my gunsmith, I had the rifle glass bedded and a trigger job done on the rifle. Absolutely no improvement. I checked all the screws on the action and scope mount. All tighter than ticks on a hound dog. Well, there was a gun show coming up and I knew of a rifle that was headed down the road. Thinking very carefully over what I had done with the rifle, I realized the only thing I hadn't done was check the scope. After all, a brand new Leupold should work, right? Well, I had a Leupols 3x9 Vari-X II laying around doing nothing so i put it on the rifle, bore sighted it and went to the range. After preliminary sighting at 25 Yards, I went to 100 yard, fired three shot to determine where the group center was. A three shot cloverleaf that looked more like one ragged hole than anything else. Just about everything I've run through that rifle since has shot to one inch or less, mostly less with several bullet doing .375" The only bullet that rifle will not shoot is the Winchester bulk 150 gr. Powerpoints. matter of fact, none of my 7x57s or my .280 Remington will shoot that piece of gargbage bullet.
My advice? Switch scopes if you haven't already.
Just might save your sanity.
Paul B.

Flip,

Understand the problem with the local laws ... therefore, recheck the bedding. Make sure there are no wood chips under the action or the bbl. These can surely cause what you are seeing. Check the torque on the stock bolts with a torque wrench. Record what you find and make sure that it goes back together the same every time.

If the barrel is completely floated, shim up the last 3/4-1" of the barrel channel in the stock with a very dense paper, kydex or plastic so that there is pressure on the barrel at that point. Use a known thickness and work it up until there is 4 to 6 pounds of force on the bbl.

If the rifle shoots, then rebed with a pad under the bbl at the end of the stock.

Let us know how it goes.

Two holes together and another far away, sounds like a loose scope mount.

I am now a scope mount Nazi.

Too many times I have got strange range data with the scope on tight with the rings and the rings on the mount nice and tight. Only to take the scope and rings off and find the scope mount screws are loose.

It's enough to make any sane person a scope mount Nazi. Glass the mounts to the reciever and Lok-Tite the screws to the reciever.

It's hard not to start blasting away when you get problems. Unless you're really careful you start shooting much worse and mask any cure.

My 7x57 has a recurring group opening issue that appears recoil related and is I'm sure the scope.

Flip,

You've already received alot of advice here and here's my $0.02 worth too(pun)!

Before going the tent peg route I'd suggest:

1. Action screws, check the length, are they firmly seated and tight or is one (or both) a touch too long or short? An alternative is to go back to the original rear action screw sleeve to ensure you're not crushing the stock and binding the action. Is the magazine fitted correctly? Are there any bulges in the magazine cover implying an issue in this area?

2. I'd have guessed the crosshair in the scope as the issue but you've already tried another scope, so check the mounts (Loose?, correct mount screws, too long, too short?) & rings in detail, are you using 26mm rings instead of 1" (25.4mm) is the scope objective bell touching the barrel or the rear sight?

Like a couple of folks have already recommended if the barrel is not responding to NO pressure, i.e., free floated; I'd go the exact opposite route - pressure. Shims are a good starting point and I've used the brass screws trick before with good results.

I have a Heym in .223 Remington on a minature action with a pencil-thin barrel. Shot inconsistantly as it came from the factory with the barrel touching the entire barrel channel. Free floating showed no improvement in consistancy. Took two small brass screws (.5" long) and screwed them (about 1.5" from the end of the forearm) into the forearm at @ 45° degree angle. Cut off the heads with a Dremel Tool and worked them down carefully with a dowel and sandpaper until they were protruding about 3/16". Started shooting and sanding the screws down until the sweet spot was located (about 1/16"). This ended up applying just enough upward barrel pressure to give a consistant zero and the inconsistancy issue disapppeared. It shoots great with diffeent loads, from a hot or cold barrel and has maintained zero for years. If this doens't work the screws can always be filed flush with the inside of the barrel channel and you'll never even know they were there.

Thanks for all the advice, I decided to rebed the rifle miself, I am cleaning up the whole stock to make sure it is done proper, any special advice on bedding synthetic stocks will be aprixiated thanks

Flip