All the cases in the picture are once fired brass and have been necked size using an FL die screwed out. As you can see the third case from the left has a pronounced bend in it just above the web area. Is it possible that this happened in the rifle? Also all my fired cases have a slight raised ring just above the web area that can be felt with a fingernail. However only on one side of the case. 180 degrees from the raised ring the case is smooth (nothing can be felt with a fingernail. As you can see from the pic, that one case is bent badly. This is the second rifle that I've owned that exhibit this. Both of them are Remington 700 in .270 win. Any ideas? Is this normal to some extent in all off the shelf rifles?

I'm certainly no gunsmith, but just for fun I'd like to take a crack at this, if you don't mind. My guess is that the chamber is bored either off-center or slighlty crooked (w/ relation to the bolt face, i.e. the axis of the chamber is NOT perpendicular to the bolt face). Why it happens on only some rounds, I'm not sure.

A very interesting problem, I am intensely interested in what exactly it turns out to be.

Todd

Perhaps your press is a little wacked for lack of a better word. You may be sizing the cases in an off center or off axis press. Is this the only caliber or do you load for different rifles on this same press. The reason I ask is that you are using a die not full seated in the threads if I am reading right. Are the treads sloppy? I had a similar problem till I squared the die and then tightened the lock ring.

[ 12-13-2002, 07:30: Message edited by: Carnivore ]

TS,

1) Ring; Too hot of a load. Take a bent paper clip that will fit into the case. If you can feel the groove inside the case, almoat assured too hot.

2) Off center/bent case; Worn or off center shell holder. The rifle could have a cause but the dies should straighten them out. Are the dies in the frame straight? Is the die body too large allowing too much play. Is the expander button sized down and polished glass/mirrow smooth?(will put less pressure-push/pull- on the case).

3) Do these cases look deformed out of the gun or only after you run them in the die? May help to narrow the cause.

If you have someone with a confirmed set of dies and shell holder, give them a try. You may want to post this on the reloading forum, if you have not done so. Other ideas, I am sure, will comeforth.

All opinions are that solely of the author and like all opinions are like butt holes and arm pits. Everyone has them and they all stink.
Good luck.
SAM

Turkeyshooter,

1. Factory chambers are relatively sloppy. Chambers are normally much larger than the loaded round in all dimensions.

2. Factory weapons have loose headspace. Not dangerous for the most part, but loose to the point of zero contact with the head of the case.

3. Factory weapons have loose and sloppy throats. Too large a diameter to support the bullet or assist in centering the round in the sloppy chamber.

You can back the FL die off all you want, but when you push the brass in to form the neck, you are still forming the body to some extent, if you are wanting to neck size only, use a neck sizing die.

Anyway, you insert this round into a factory sloppy chamber and because of gravity, the loaded round just lies on the bottom of the chamber. Because of the factory slop, there is excess space present between the top of the chamber and the brass.

When the firing pin hits the primer (off center of course) and as the powder ignites, the brass expands towards the area where there is least resistance and least support (the top of the chamber) which creates the offset that is prevelant in factory weapons.

Sometime we should discuss the cure...

Regards,

Malm

OK Malmborg, lets discuss the cure. And just how much should I expect to pay for the cure. I'm guessing squaring everything up and lapping the lugs? Should I expect Remington to do anything to correct this.

Are you sure it is the gun? Why would one case be so much more tweaked than the other? Malm makes a wonderful and true point. I would not presume to know what Malm knows but perhaps between the dies, press and rifle you have a gross accumulation of tolerances. Try a neck die first in your press, try a buddies press with your die and the neck die, Kick away all of the little things that stack up and the real problem will eventually rear its ugly head. If your barrel really is that bad, I have brand new rem 700 take offs never fired that I would part with at a good price, 30-06, and .243. Good luck.

You have a combination of things going on here.
1. Your reloading dies are not square with the press/shell holder. Thus, when you are sizing the case, you are inadvertently bending it. Don't believe for a moment that because you have screwed the die into the press that everything is square. You've just proved otherwise.This is also simple to fix. loosen your locking ring and raise the shell holder. Screw down the die till it meets the shell holder and makes complete contact all around. While holding the die incontact with the shell holder, tighten the lock ring and the set screw. Make sure the decapping rod is also not bent and is locked down properly. Check the decapping rod by rolling it on your bench. If it's bent replace it.There is also the possibility your shell holder is off-center, but not likely.
There is no way you can produce such a crooked case in a rifle chamber. This happened during sizing.
2. The off- center bulge in the case is produced as Malm stated by a slightly oversize chamber/factory headspacing combo.. It's common, and has no little or no effect on the accuracy of a Hunting rifle. It would potentially effect the accuracy of a bench gun, and that's why they are all produced with minimum chambers and painstakingly headspaced. While unsigthly, unless on multiple reloadings you get a head separation, it's no reason to spend additional money.
Hope this helps.-Rob

The bulge was caused by the slop in chamber dimensions, no doubt.

I have seen the "bent case, occasional" problem before, too. Comes from not pushing the case all the way into the mouth cut on the shell holder, starting it into the die off-center. A shell holder with a slick surface where the case head contacts will allow the case to slide. But one that has a little wear or corrosion or a tiny burr won't.

But pushing the case ALL THE WAY back CAREFULLY by hand before beginning to raise the ram, and holding the case in place with your finger as it enters the die, as high on the upstroke as possible will prevent this.

Turkeyshooter
FWIW
I have a M700 in 270. It's the crappy tupperware special but the chamber dimensions are well within SAAMI specs. As the other posters have said, the bent case was probably done in the reloading room.
When you start to reload again, try free-floating the shell-holder. You can do this by replacing the piece of wire that holds the shell-holder in place with a rubber O-ring, the kind you get at the hardware store. This allows the case to find its own center in the die. This is no substitute for proper die set-up, but it does eliminate one variable.

Good Luck
ZM

Turkeyshooter,

I doubt you have any recourse with Remington over this. The only time Remington would ever consider doing anything is if it were a safety issue. They would contend that this sloppy chamber was within their specifications and that would be that.

The cure is relatively an easy one. Were it me, I would do the following. If enough barrel shoulder were present, I would set the barrel back enough to completely remove the throat. This would accomplish a couple of things.

1st, by going back this far, you have reduced the chamber enough to where a completely new chamber with a tighter than factiory reamer could be cut. While not a benchrest chamber, this would remove all unneccessary slop. 2nd, since you are essentially cutting a new chamber, you will have complete freedom in how this rifle is headspaced. Since you are going to headspace the rifle anyway, now would be a good time to true the bolt lugs and bolt face.

Remember our discussions concerning the .004 crush for Ackley chambers? I would incorporate this exact line of thinking when setting the headspace on any rimless cartridge. As is the case with fireforming wildcats, tight headspace is needed to support and hold the case in place for proper fireforming. Whats the difference between tight headspace for that or tight headspace for this?

3rd, I would cut the new throat no more than .0005 over bullet diameter and I would keep it short. This .0005 is tight enough to properly guide the bullet straight into the bore without any fear of producing a false off center bullet axis.

The gunsmith doing this work should first determine if the barrel is worthy of such work and he should check the action to make sure it wasn't too out of whack before he begins any work.

The cost of this barrel work should run somewhere less than $200.00 + shipping. This price should include the bolt work.

While not a benchrest rifle, it would be one capable of producing excellent repeatable accuracy if the factory barrel, ammo and shooter is up to it.

Regards,

Malm