Vapodog is right, don't mess it up , just use a clear finish. That will show the grain in the best way.

I was going to second vapodog, but now I will third it. Don't use a stain. A good finish, polymer modified tung oil, teak oil etc. will do it justice.

Well, there is more than one kind of stain.



A pigment stain will indeed "muddy" the finish and should not be used. This type is what most people think of when they think "stain" unless they are cabinetmakers or the like.



However, there are also stains which dye the wood (as for "water soluble dye") and these have no adverse impact on the depth of finish (or really how far into the wood you can see). You can see through these stains like they were ginger ale -- they don't have the solid particles of pigment that "normal" stains have. They may be water or alcohol based (the latter won't raise grain, so if you use that you should raise the grain separately).



The non-pigment stains can be purchased through high-end shops catering to cabinetmakers. They will probably be sold as "water soluble dyes". Tartrazine, nigrosine are a couple of the colours, and there is also scarlet if you want to duplicate the reddish colour of older European guns. You need tiny amounts of the dyes, so you measure them carefully with powder scale or a TINY scoop (a teaspoon would be needed only if you were mixing a lof of dye).



The non-pigment stains have another advantage in that they don't show lap marks much. This is useful so you can dye that walnut sapwood to match the heartwood on that cheapie stock blank you purchased -- you don't get the abrupt demarcation line that you get with pigment stains.



If I recall correctly, I used some nigrosene and orange water soluble dyes to really bring out the contrast in an American walnut stock that had some fiddleback. It came out looking like a much better grade of wood than it was!



Finally, because the wood is dyed and not coloured just on the surface as pigment stains do, moderate damage to the wood does not reveal strongly contrasting wood. In fact, you will waste your time trying to lighten a stock coloured with water or alcohol soluble dyes with sandpaper -- use water or alcohol to leach some of the stain back out if you need to fine tune your results. I've used this to dye walnut of a different colour that I had to inlay into a badly damaged stock because it was the closest I could come. After staining (dyeing, really) the repair was detable only by the thin epoxy glue line.



jpb

Chic,

What exactly is a polymer modified Tung Oil? I have been trying to finish a stock with Tru Oil and it will not dry, at least not very soon. I applied it last Sunday and it is still tacky. I am told that Tru Oil is tung oil with some sort of dryer in it. I would appreciate your telling me a brand name and whatever technique you use. I really need to get a finish on this stock by Christmas.

Thanks,
HOOT

Use a Danish oil finish and Lots of wet sanding. Tung oil can be used if you cut it a bit. Brownells has some video tapes on finishing gun stocks. They are worth the investment!

I can't answere your question on polymer modified tung oil but...

For best results with True Oil you must apply it very sparingly. The thicker it is applied the longer it takes to dry. Humidity also affects True Oil's drying time. I also find that sunlight greatly aids in reducing drying time.

It sounds like you got it on too thick. You need to take it back off. 0000 steel wool and a little alcohol will do this just fine. Then use tack cloth to remove any steel fibers and buff real good with some old denim. Let everything dry and then reapply very sparingly ... I dip just the pad of one finger in the True Oil and rub it into the wood over several inches until it just starts to get tacky, then I move to another area. The first coat once dry may appear splotchy but successive coats will build the finish and even it out. I have always found the drying times on the direction a bit optimistic. I use a room with a dehumidifier my basement and apply a coat every 12 hours. I find that it takes about three to four coats to really even things out well. The more coats you apply the shinyer the stock will become but the shine can be cut back to a satin shean with a light buffing with 0000 steel wool or rotten stone.

Getting your stock done by Christmas should be no trouble.

I'm gonna go with Oddball on this one. I recently refinished the stock on my old Remington 721. I sanded with 100, 180, and 220 then applied Danish oil. It gives a nice hand-rubbed appearance and definitely makes any feathering or fiddleback stand out.

Heres a couple pics of the rifle.

I ran some water over it and the grain shows well, but it's just...well....brown. There's no color to it. I have a stock catalog from Weigners (sp?) and those (finished)stocks have more "color" Maybe more yellow?? They're just more beautiful. Maybe I'm asking too much.

Quote:

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If I recall correctly, I used some nigrosene and orange water soluble dyes to really bring out the contrast in an American walnut stock that had some fiddleback. It came out looking like a much better grade of wood than it was!

< !--color-->

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How do you do this combination?? I'm verrry close to a Rockler Woodworking store and I'm sure they'll have all that stuff. It sound like the orange dye need to be mixed with water (or alcohol). Is the nigrosene a liquid or also a powder??

I know what you mean by the stock being "just brown". But, staining the stock will not change this to your liking I am afraid. have you looked at the grain of the wood outside instead of under flouresent lights? This can have a big impact on the way the feathering and grain will appear. Do you have any pics of the wood to post? Wyo

This is the lightest colored walnut stock I've ever finished. It's finished (solely) with a spray product from Brownells called custom Oil and it's available in two shades...Satin and High Gloss. I'm using satin...hope this photo comes thru

I have been finishing walnut gun stocks for 40 years and use nothing but Tru-Oil. Tru-Oil has a little color in it and will make the fancy grain sparkle and dance without the mud look. I don't think you will be happy if you stain fancy wood.

I rub in coats of Tru-oil by hand until the grain if filled. I don't want any runs, but don't worry about a little streaking. This takes 3 to 6 coats depending on the wood. Of course let the stock dry throughly between coats. When the grain is 100% filled (don't cheat or get in a hurry as it will show up later if you do), cut the finish down to bare wood with 0000 steel wool. This is the hardest part of the work. If you like satin oil type finish this is what you now have. Just buff and perhaps put a little wax on the stock to protect.

If you want a high gloss finish, after you have done the above, apply a coat of oil, putting just a couple of drops on your finger and rubbing it in, trying to make those few drops go as far as they can. Repeat until the entire stock has received a very thin coat. Always finish the rub by going with the grain.

Let dry and rub with a clean soft cloth, using quite a bit of pressure. This will take off any dust in the finish and smooth out some high spots. Repeat this oiling and buffing process for another 6 to 10 coats. I have been known to use as many as 50 coats.

Now take a soft cloth backed up by a large pink school eraser and put some Brownell rubbing compound on the cloth and gently rub the entire stock. Rub too hard and you will cut the finish back to bare wood again. Buff the stock again with a soft cloth to remove any compound and put a sheen on the stock.

Put one more coat of oil on, again making a few drops go as far as possible and rubbing the oil in. Always finsh your oiling by rubbing with the grain.

When dry, do a final buff with a clean soft cotton cloth and you will have a mirror finish that is very tough, can be repaired with ease and will show the grain of the wood to it's full advantage.

There are probably other finishes just as good as Tru-oil, but after 40 plus years, I have figured out all it quirks and don't plan on changing now.

OK..here it is. The forearm is done for now..only 12 weeks until the barrel comes. I've started on the buttstock..

What do you mean NO COLOR??!! That's a gorgeous piece of tree!! Either true oil or a danish oil finish will make that wood simply beautiful!!

Whoops, There's definitely grain. It's a "what will it look like when I'm done" kind of thing. I'm a newbie at stockmaking (this is my first one). Guess I don't want to screw it up. I know once there's a finish on it, there can be no going back. That Tru-oil thing sounds good to me. I have plenty of time for multiple coats, that's for sure.

4X4, that wood will look great when finished. My reluctance to using stain is not the type of stain. I have used all that were mentioned. I do not like it because I feel the best finish you can put on a stock is one that is wet sanded into the wood. If you do this on a stained stock, you will cut into the stained areas and it will look patchy, light in one area and darker in another. The only way to finish over a stain is to use build up coats with light work in between with steel wool (which I do not like for personal reasons) and then you build up a thickness before you even try to even think of wet sanding to create a smooth surface. I do know looking at that wood that you will be tickled with the results of the finish without any stain.

Old4x4,
You might check out some articles mentioned by SDH in this thread:
http://www.accuratereloading.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=240522&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

I've seen the results - in art museum exhibits. This is really worth trying.

I have personally tried something very close to this, on a muzzleloader and plain jane black walnut. It really did work nicely. The next rifle - an english walnut stocked low wall, will follow these steps to the letter.

BTW, the finish on the muzzleloader appears to be nearly bomb proof too.

Brent

Old 4x4,
I use a Tung Oil finish by Minwax. It is "modified" with somesort of drying agent. Dries much, much, quicker than the Old Masters Tung Oil that I have. It dries clear and looks great on my stocks. I also cut it with about 1/3 mineral spirits.
I have used some of Pilkington's stains and they look good so far. I am about 50% done with my first attempt using this product. I have also used the Birchwood Casey stains on some low grade walnut and quite frankly it worked really good as the stock looks great.
I will say that I also use a soaker tube. Spar Varnish, Teak Oil, and Mineral Spirits. I soak for one week and then let dry a month before I start the final finishing. I have done three this way and gone over with the Minwax Tung Oil product and I am really pleased with the results.
As for Tru-Oil, I am not sure I like it. I think Tru-Oil would be good over a Tung Oil finish and I am in the process of doing a stock this way. I have never used Danish Oil but I might need to try it just to see.
With that piece of wood I would not dye it. It looks plenty good to me. Good luck.

Cheers,
Jason

What is the best way to remove an old finish, before doing a new finish? Also, what is a good wax to use as a final coat, if that is desired?

Scott

I ended up getting a product from Rockler Woodworking called Nordic Oil. It mentions on the can that you can "wet sand" with the oil on the wood to fill the pores. I'm on the 2nd coat on a piece from the original block and it brought out some grain that I didn't see before. Can't wait to finish that stock. Very long and tedious process, though (6 hrs so far)..no wonder they charge so much for some of these fancy stocks!!

54JNoll,

Thanks for your reply. I put Tru Oil on a stock a drop at a time with a hypo needle with the point ground off. I put the oil on very sparingly and rub it in well before going to another area of the stock. In this case, I think that the Tru Oil that I am currently using is old. Like all Tru Oil bottles, mine has a layer of dried oil in it. Taking the hypo needle and punching through the dried oil layer makes it easy to get to the oil without gettin particles of dried oil on the finish of the stock. Now back to the problem. I think that all the drying agent that is supposed to be in the oil is in the dried layer in the bottle. I finally took a small lint free cloth that is intended to clean glasses or other lenses and rubbed the gummy finish off. It took some time but now the stock looks ok and is starting to dry. I rub it down every day. I now have an "in the wood" finish that I prefer. However, the stock is for my brother and he likes the gloss finish. Can't make up my mind whether to just paste wax over the finish or get some new oil and oil over the pretty hard finish that I now have. Again, my thanks. HOOT