OK guys, here's the deal. I want a LIGHTWEIGHT (under 6 pounds would be nice, but no more than 6 1/2 pounds scoped with something in the 2.5x8 or 3x9 Leupold class) deer rifle, but it has to be capable of under 3/8" for 3 shots at 100. I don't want a short barrel (preferably nothing under 21"), and the cartridge must have a pretty flat trajectory. No rifle that has to use Nosler Ballistic Tips or light-for-caliber bullets to achieve accuracy, and no caliber under 6.5mm will be considered. Recoil is not a factor, and the caliber must be sufficient for any reasonable angle of shot presented. If it has a muzzle brake it must be removeable for hunting, as I don't use ear protection while hunting. The stock must not be "clubby" or thick through the wrist area and fore arm.

It does not have to be fancy or even pretty, but it MUST be light and accurate. Action make is not important (I can probably supply most suitable actions anyway ), nor is barrel make as long as it will meet the accuracy requirement. I have been using a Blaser R93 in 270 Win, and it meets my accuracy requirement, but I would like something a bit lighter.

Up til now there has not been any insurmountable problems in my requirements, and I am willing to allow pretty wide latitude, but the fly in the ointment is that I don't want to pay as much as a vintage Jeffery bolt rifle or wait a year for delivery (I would be happy to buy an existing rifle that meets my criteria in fact).

There you have it gentlemen. Any comments, or any potential builders or sellers? If you would prefer to contact me by email that will be fine (please use the email address in my profile).

Thanks,
Jim

The name that comes to mind.....Lex Webernick, Rifles, Inc in Texas....very light, very accurate and well built...will run about $2500 new as I recall. You can occassionally find one used. web-site is www.riflesinc.com

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976385063.htm

Have you thought about one of the Rem 700 titaniums?

[ 10-16-2003, 07:42: Message edited by: DB Bill ]

Check the Gun List, custom rifle section.
Also Melvin Forbes rifles have a good reputation.

The Kimber 84M Montana is spec'd to weigh 5 lb, 2 oz and will cost about $1000.

I don't think it will shoot 3/8 unless your both lucky and skilled but it may shoot quite well.

The 84M action is quite trim and it's pillar bedded. The stock is carbon and kevlar. Sounds good and it's all made up and everything.

www.kimberamerica.com/84m.php

Lex Webernick, just tell him how light you want to go.

I had my hands on a 338 Win he made several years ago, think it was about 1993. 4-3/4 pounds, 6 with scope and rings and sling.

Or, buy a REM 7 Titanium in 260 rem, rebarrel to 6.5x284. Put in one of those 11 oz Lone Wolf stocks, Talley Aluminum, and a small light scope. Had this exact same rifle in the shop last year. Might be available in 7mm-08, then you do not have to rebarrel.

Also had a Model 7 in the shop last year to rebarrel. Steel action. It was 7mm-08, weighed 5-1/2 pounds less scope, could be lighter with some stock work. This one was in a McMillan.

[ 10-16-2003, 08:22: Message edited by: John Ricks ]

Thanks gentlemen,

I spoke to Lex and Melvin several years ago about a similar project, but other things intervened and it never got started. Since there have been many new developments recently (Win short mags, titanium actions, new stocks, etc.) I was hoping that there might have been some improvements in accuracy potential in the lightweights.I even looked at the Kimber M84 with the wood stock, but it would be a matter of luck as to whether it would meet the accuracy requirement.

Even though it is not necessary in a hunting rifle extreme accuracy and portability are the prime reasons for this project (I just feel more confident if I know that my rifle will place a bullet in the exact same spot every time I pull the trigger if I do my part). I have had remarkable luck over the years with my old 700 and R93, but I have always wanted a lightweight with the same potential.

Jim

have you talked with John Lewis at Carolina Precision in Beech Island, S.C. Just across the river from Augusta. He ran Kenny Jarette's shop for years.His phone # is 803-827-2069. Your weight requiements are pretty easy to make I have a rem m7 and da m700 both weigh slightly over 6 pounds with a zeiss 4x, they are both in brown prec. pounder stocks.

model 7, 708, replace the stock with a superlight carbonfiber, and have them both pillar bed the stock and remove the foam filler...

the model 7 is 6.5#, with a lam stock... I think you could take 7 oz off with an exotic stock, and not remove ANY metal...

http://www.remington.com/firearms/centerfire/M7_LS.htm

switch to a lighter,hidden mag, plastic follower, NO metal removal, and I bet you are at 6 without a scope.

jeffe

Check with Kerry O'Day at Match Grade Arms in Houston.

http://www.mgarmsinc.com/

ah, ask me offline about mr oday...

suffice to say that I place him firmly in the catagory as richard's microfit...

he wants 1500-2000 for a rifle that weighs no less than a model 7, and, well, his customer service SUCKS ASS

jeffe

The Matchgrade Arms concept of milled openings in the receiver for the sake of saving a few ounces in carrying weight is a simon-pure brainfart and nothing else. The Remington 700 is overtly subject to malfunction due to dust contamination in the first place (see Matunas and Otteson for commentary on that issue), and only a theortically-imprisoned individual would attempt to deliberately exacerbate that situation.

If I wanted the lightest possible rifle for my own use, I'd likely get in touch with Melvin Forbes at New Ultra-Light Arms or Lex W. at Rifles, Inc.

Either way, these guys are hunters and build solid, accurate, and reliable rifles for serious, real-world use.

AD

mbobo375......your post seemed to imply that you didn't think you could get the kind of accuracy you wanted from a rifle built by Lex or UltraLight. I've owned two of Lex's ltwt rifles and they were both extremely accurate. The only reason I sold them was because I outgrew the feeling I needed a very, very ltwt rifle.

Jeffe,

Sorry you appear to have had problems. I used one of his rifles for years and then sold it to a friend who has used it in Africa, New Zealand and Alaska without any problems. Delivering the less than 1" accuracy that he claimed. It was built on a Howa not a Remington.

My experiences with him have always been first class. To the extent of knocking off some charges that his staff had failed to mention upfront.

As others have said the easiest way to cut weight is a ultralight stock. Simply using one of the 1# stocks available and a blind magazine light scope and rings it is easy to break under 7# and approach 6.5#.

[ 10-16-2003, 21:34: Message edited by: ramrod340 ]

Jim,

The name that popped into my head when I read the thread title was Mel Forbes and New Ultra Light Arms. I bought one of his rifles in the old days, and it was as advertised.

He is a hunter too. When I talked to him, he was hurrying up to get gone for a hunt himself.

jim

Thanks for all the replys both on the forum and off. I have a few options already, but please feel free to suggest others.

DB Bill,
It was not my intention to imply that Lex or Melvin do not build accurate rifles. They certainly do, and I would be happy to have a rifle by either. The intervening circumstance referred to was a deal on another rifle that was too good to pass up which depleted my "toy fund" at that time(this seems to be an all to familiar pattern ).

Jim

No need to go custom just buy a Blaser K95 (available in numerous calibres) the weight is exactly what you request as is the accuracy. I have a 6.5x57R which has shot under half an inch.

I thnk that a company is out there named new ultra light arms. I think but i remembered i wanted one b/c they were light and accurate but then i saw the 2000 dollar price tag. so i didnt consider it again. If tahts in your price range look at them

mbogo.....available now.

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=12869797

mbogo375

Option is to get a long Remmington titanium action and send it to John Lewis in SC. John has been working for Jarret and knows how to tinker on a remington.

Option number two is to buy a taconic titanium mauser.

I would rather pick a well balanced rifle than a light one. Light rifles are hard to shoot after climbing or running up a mountain side. If weight is a problem, minimize the stuff in the back pack, start to exercise

/ JOHAN

Mel Forbes makes the best light rifle available. The one I used to own [.257 Roberts Imp.] consistently shot three shot clover-leaf clusters. What I particularly like about the Ultra Light Arms approach is that rather than skeletonize and cannabalize a Rem 700 action, the foundation for the ULA rifle is down-sized action [very similar to Rem 700, but smaller diameter receiver, 3.0" magazine, etc.]. The ergonomics of the ULA stock are as good as there is.

Mel Forbes is now advertizing his actions for sale. You could buy one and have some one barrel and stock it, but if you're going to go that route, just buy the whole ULA rifle. They are worth it and a much better value than some of those ultra-light custom jobs costing three, four and five thousand.

Jordan

www.newultralight.com

[ 10-20-2003, 23:18: Message edited by: Matt in Virginia ]

Thanks to you all for the additional suggestions.

Bill,
I have been trying to get in touch with those folks unsuccessfully about the ULA. Maybe later .

Johan,
Johan my friend, you make a couple of good suggestions. As to your final suggestion however, we have no mountains in southern Georgia, and I seldom jog while sitting on a deer stand , or going to one either for that matter. The only climbing involved is up a tree or ladder to the stand, and I have never yet shot a deer while doing this . Due to these circumstances I am more concerned with accuracy and light weight than balance (I already have a number of rifles with good balance, but I am the guy who uses Blasers, so what do I know ).

As to why I want a light rifle, I want one "just because". On top of that light rifles CAN be accurate. Here is a target that I shot a few days ago with a CZ527 Carbine (under 6 pounds) in 7.62x39 at 100 yards, and no, it was not a fluke, as the other target with this load was only slightly larger . If this cartridge had a much flatter trajectory I would just use this rig, but it runs out of steam rapidly out past 150 yards.

Jim

mbogo,
Mr. Forbes lost his secretary a month or so back and has been pulling double duty. He also just completed a move of his shop from Morgantown to Granville and hence he's been awfully busy. Give him another call. He is a complete gentleman and you will not regret doing business with him...

Best Regards, Matt Garrett.
Chesapeake, Virginia

Btw, He just completed a ULA 20 for me in slightly less than a month. You might get lucky if he has everything on the shelf as he did in my case...

[ 10-21-2003, 20:02: Message edited by: Matt in Virginia ]