You may want to check with Mr. Williams (Triggerguard) of the Williams Company. I believe that they are coming out with an action sometime this fall that will be 100 percent machined. I addition, a company called Hein machines an action that is very much like the pre-64 action and was designed by Peter Noreen.



Of course, you could also look into the Montana Action.



And why wouldn't you want to hunt those pre-64s.



Blue

I've never heard of the softness issue you are relating. I do shoot factory ammo most of the time so that may not be an issue (the softness). I inherited several pre-64s but these are family heirlooms and have been relegated to gun safe/range status. Perhaps I should just be done with it and order up a Legend from Mr. Echols. If I were to purchase one of the newer Win 70 Classics just for the action, is there anything I should be aware of? I understand many of the parts employed are of cast construction unlike the older pre-64 Win 70? (which is why I was considering the Dakota 76)

HtgAtty

I have a Dakota 76, .338 Win. Mag. and have owned-hunted with it since January, 1993. I shoot hotter handloads in this rifle than in any other .338 I have ever owned, this is 11 in number. I have owned 5 Pre-64 Mod. 70s in .338 and currently own 4 and I have used these rifles in the harshest conditions of B.C. for nearly 40 yrs.



The Dakota is not perfect and I consider the actual rifles to be over-priced, however, the action is superior in design to a Pre-64 Mod. 70 in certain respects. The metalurgy is also superior to the old 70 and the ugly rumour concerning softness is something promulgated by certain custom gunsmiths; I think this is largely based on jealousy of Don Allen's success.



I would point out that Al Lind, for example, strongly recommmends Dakota actions and he is a rather well thought of gunsmith; other fine custom gunmakers also use these, this includes some of the most currently popular "in" 'smiths among the international jetset hunters.



The bolt sleeve retention lock is a p.o.s., I understand that this has now been improved and the Pete Grisel designed bolt stop is both unobtrusive and functional; the aesthetic qualities are a matter of personal taste, a quality not subject to personal financial status. Mine has worked flawlessly and has not gummed up as the Mauser will-or the Newton ejector on a Mod. 70. The point is that ANY mechanical device can fail and there is NO perfect design.



The comparision between different rifles/actions must also take cost into account, IMO, as it is not objective to compare a full-on custom rifle to a semi-production one. Many hunters cannot afford a rifle by the currently "in" custom builders and it is not and has never been necessary to own one of these to be successful as a hunter. I would pick a Dakota 76 as the basis for a custom rifle without a second thought as mine has worked for me while hunting solo in the most remote areas of B.C., in country populated by Grizzlies. I would get the bolt lock changed if this were my primary rifle, though.

HtgAtty



I had a dakota and liked it very much. Actually the Dakota 76 is a crossing on a Mauser, wichester and a springfield.



Building a custom gun, the dakota action will help you retain the secondhand value better than an ordinary tuned facotry action like the winchester. A wincester action requires a bit of work and change of parts which also will add to the final price



I know lots of peple who uses dakotas and are very happy with them. Saeed, who owns the forum has used dakota actions for his favorite rifles.



Try to find a used Dakota in 375 and have it restocked, sometimes you can make real bargains. Check gun list and shops, gun shows etc.







Cheers



/ JOHAN

There is nothing manufactured today that can rivle the pre-64 model 70 for form or function. You can buy an action for 500.00 and it will always retain its value much longer than any currently produced action. Granite Mountain Arms actions are 2500+++++, Dakota actions are 1500.00++++++ Mauser actions Orberndorf 400.00 +++++++++++ plus the work
to make them a custom job. Go to the Custom Gun Makers Guild show and see what people are using.Not Montana actions, Not Dakota 76 sctions. No Remington or Weatherby or Savage or Ruger actopns either. In the bolt action line are Mausers that are highly refined, a few Granite actions but many pre-64 and Classic actions. Best bang for the buck!!!!!

The Mato uses the Dakota 97 action, not the 76 action. So, that is why the price could be what they were.

Here is a blurb from Dakota Arms regarding the manufacture of the model 76.

Sturgis, South Dakota, is best known to the public for its annual motorcycle rally that draws over half a million bikers to the normally quiet little town. To shooters, hunters and collectors of fine firearms, Sturgis is known as the home of Dakota Arms -- maker of distinctive, elegant hunting rifles and shotguns of uncompromising quality.

The company was founded by Don and Norma Allen. Don Allen is a former pilot, and since 1972 he has been making custom rifle stocks in his spare time. Allen noticed that pre-'64 Winchester M70 actions -- favorites with lovers of fine hunting rifles -- were getting more scarce and expensive. He also felt the M70's action could be improved. So with typical American entreprenurial spirit, he went ahead and built his own.

The Mechanics Of Safety

Allen and Pete Grisel designed the Dakota 76 action. It is similar in function and appearance to the pre-'64 Model M70 but with more Mauser 98 influence. In discussing these changes, a brief digression is in order. Rifle enthusiasts like to argue about which action is the strongest: In fact, all current commercial actions have a huge margin of strength. Bolt-actions are typically strong enough to handle pressures of 150,000 psi or more.

The brass cartridge case, however, will take pressures in the 80,000 psi range. Since commercial ammunition is usually loaded to maximum pressures of 55,000 to 65,000 psi, there is an ample margin of strength -- but the cartridge case will fail long before the action does.

Why not use a stronger material such as steel for the cases? Because brass has an excellent combination of strength, pliability and elasticity. When the gun is fired, the pliability lets the case expand to tightly grip the chamber walls, which seals off the powder gases from coming back into the action. When the bullet exits and pressure drops, the elasticity of the case lets it spring back to near original dimensions, allowing the case to be extracted. Although strong, steel cases wouldn't seal off the chamber as well as brass, wouldn't extract as easily, and would be subject to rust.

When comparing actions, it's not a question of strength. As stated before, steel is much stronger than the brass cartridge case. The question is, in the event of a case failure, how well does the action protect the shooter from the escaping gases? Occasionally we hear accounts of how someone had a rifle "blow up" but miraculously wasn't injured. Actually the rifle didn't blow up (if it did, the shooter likely wouldn't be around to talk about it). What really happened? The case failed and the action controlled and vented the escaping gases away from the shooter, just as its designers intended.

A hundred years ago when technology was less advanced, case failures from poor brass were more of a concern. Today's manufactured cases are of such uniformly high quality that such failures are virtually unheard of. Now when a case fails, it is almost always a result of shooter error: firing the rifle with the bore obstructed, loading the wrong caliber cartridge, or poor handloads with excessive headspace or the wrong powder.

The Mauser 98 action protects the shooter from failures as well as any, and better than most. It has a "flat" breech in which the cartridge case is enclosed by the steel chamber right up to the extractor groove. If the case does fail, escaping gases going down the firing-pin channel in the bolt are vented through two oblong slots in the bolt, down the left lug raceway in the receiver, and out to the left through the thumb slot (which facilitates magazine loading with stripper clips) in the left receiver wall. Gases going past the slot are deflected away from the shooter's face by a flange on the bolt sleeve.

The pre-'64 Model M70 has several Mauser features but also some differences. Like the 1903 Springfield, it has the breech end of the barrel coned to enhance cartridge feeding, which leaves a small portion of the case unsupported by the steel of the chamber. However, the unsupported section is the area just ahead of the extractor groove where the case is thickest and strongest. Pressures high enough to cause it to fail would likely result in case failure at the primer with other actions.

The pre-'64 action has a small hole in the right side of the receiver to vent escaping gases. The bolt has two holes that vent gases coming down the firing-pin channel into the left receiver raceway. Unlike military Mauser actions, the Model 70 does not have a thumb cut in the left receiver wall (which would allow a large volume of gas to escape) or a flange on the bolt sleeve. The bolt-stop partly blocks the raceway, but in the event of a case failure, gases coming through the left raceway would likely hit the shooter (one of the many reasons to always wear protective glasses when shooting any firearm).

Frank de Haas, in his fine book Bolt Action Rifles, phrased it rather delicately: "... several arms experts... said that in case of a cartridge failure... they would rather have been firing some other rifle when this happened than the M70."

Incidentally, the current Model 70 Winchester has a steel lug on the bolt (opposite the extractor), which blocks off the left raceway to deflect gases away from the shooter.

I own several pre-'64 M7Os and shoot them regularly. I certainly wouldn't do this if I thought it was dangerous. With these or any rifles, I shoot either factory ammunition or carefully prepared handloads -- and I treat the cartridge cases with tender loving care. Reloaders who do any of the following are likely to get into trouble with any cartridge: use brass of questionable or unknown origins; don't understand headspace; don't measure, trim, and anneal cases as needed; or try and get just a bit more velocity or one more reload. Designers and manufacturers do their best, but with any action there is the possibility of serious injury if a case fails.

Designed To Be Better

The Dakota 76 receiver is similar to that of the M70. It is a flat-bottomed receiver with a substantial, integral recoil lug. It has the slanted bolt handle of the M70, the same excellent three-position wing safety, and the same fine trigger. Like the M70 and the Mauser 98, it has a large external extractor, controlled round feeding, and mechanical ejection. The Dakota differs from the pre-'64 M70 in that it has the flat breech of the Mauser 98.

"The breeching system we use is very similar to the Mauser," says Allen. "The bolt face is squared off like the Mauser and we've pulled the barrel back further into the receiver... the bolt actually fits into the rear portion of the barrel, forming an inner ring around the bolt."

The Dakota action, like the M70, has a vent hole in the right side of the receiver ring. The bolt stop is a precise, finely fitted part that blocks the left raceway to deflect gases and brass particles away from the shooter. Other changes include a redesigned firing-pin, beefier safety, and what Dakota calls "reverse round feeding." This means that the first round in the magazine is held by the left feed rail instead of the right. The advantage is that it is easier and faster if the shooter ever has to load a round in a hurry.

The quality of materials and workmanship is equally important. Actions can be made in various ways, all of which produce good actions if the work is done well. Dakota Arms receivers are machined from high-grade, heat-treated steel. The advantage of this method is that there is no concern about warping, which can happen if the steel is machined and then hardened. Parts can be machined to extremely close tolerances. The disadvantage to this is that it is much more time-consuming and costly to machine steel after it has been heat-treated. As Don Allen says, "We start with a 10-pound block of steel and we end up with a 2pound receiver and 8 pounds of steel shavings on the floor."

Great pains are taken during manufacture to keep everything straight and concentric; bolts are matched to receivers and receiver threads are cut so that the barrel is properly centered and aligned. Currently there are a number of gunsmiths who cater to accuracy enthusiasts by specializing in "blueprinting" actions. They take standard actions of various makes, square and true them, fit barrels square to the action, and lap the locking lugs to bear evenly. Dakota Arms rifles are made with all these features right from the beginning and have always featured high-grade barrels, which are currently supplied by Lothar Walther. The quality of materials and workmanship is equally important. Actions can be made in various ways, all of which produce good actions if the work is done well. Dakota Arms receivers are machined from high-grade, heat-treated steel. The advantage of this method is that there is no concern about warping, which can happen if the steel is machined and then hardened. Parts can be machined to extremely close tolerances. The disadvantage to this is that it is much more time-consuming and costly to machine steel after it has been heat-treated. As Don Allen says, "We start with a 10-pound block of steel and we end up with a 2pound receiver and 8 pounds of steel shavings on the floor."

I disagree that the Dakota 76 is over-priced. Several years ago a knowledgeable machinist/gunsmith told me that it would cost upwards of $1,200.00 to duplicate a commercial HVA small ring mauser action at today's prices, even on a mass production scale. My Brownell's catalog shows a gunsmith price of $1480.0 on the Dakota 76. A new Nesika, which is simpler to manufacture costs over a grand. Several months ago Mel Forbes was selling some of his actions at around $700.00, but that is not a controlled round feed and does not have some of the refinements of the Dakota. Do some comparison shopping, or go out and manufacture a similar product for less than $1400.00 and then get back to me will ya?

The notion that Dakota actions are soft is just down right silly. I imagine you've met dozens of riflemakers over the years Allen, please provide the names of each and everyone of them inasmuch as you claim you've yet to meet a single one who does not think the Dakota too soft. That is just a ridiculous assertion. Do a Rockwell hardness test if you will on a representative sample of Winchesters, Rugers, Mauser 98s and Dakota 76s and get back to me. I think you'll find that the Dakota exceeds the average hardness of each of these by a significant margin. Perhaps the alleged "softness" you complain of has something to do with that bolt-release you have such little use for!


Jordan

If you are interested in a Dakota 76 action you could get a Berretta Mato rifle. They were discontinued last year, but there are still some new ones out there for about $1,200. You get the Dakota action, barrel, and stock.
I was down at Boise Gun Company last week (and every week). They had Mato's in 30-06, 270, 7mm Rem Mag, and 300 Win Mag. Very nice rifles, but I favor Sako's personally.
JCN