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Hello Folks, I have been reading posts that are several to more than a 12 years old on converting a rifle to a 404 Jeffrey. I am no gunsmith nor mechanically inclined but I would like to understand and find the least costly method to have a rifle in 404 Jeffrey. In summary what I learned so far (I think) is the easiest method is to rebarrel a 300 RUM rifle to 404. With most people feeling that a model 70 (New Haven) was the best rifle. Question would any rifle brand (Browning, Savage, Remington...) in 300 RUM work? Does converting a 300 RUM eliminate gun smithing the magazine box, follower or feed rails? I also read that a few people recommend using a 300 H&H or 375 H&H Action? With the H&H do you have to have the bolt face opened up or extractor modified. OF course people talked about using Mauser actions which seemed to involve more gunsmithing and cost than what I am interested in. So 10+ years later is there any change to thought or what is the bottom line easiest caliber to convert to a 404 Jeffrey and what does that involve. Also what is the recommend twist rate and # of lands and barrel length? Thank you, Jim | ||
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Duane, I saw a lot of push feed Musgraves in Namibia and South Africa. I know quite a few Alaskan guides that use Remington, Weatherby, Sako and Browning rifles. Jimmy Rosenbruch who is a master guide and Weatherby Award Winner and has killed more animals than I have ever dreamt about says bring a Remington or don't come. For the 20 years I served in the military (4 tours Afganistan, 4 Iraq, 1 Kosovo and Somalia) I never saw a sniper with a CRF sniper rifle. That being said I have Speed's book and the looks of a well worn Game Department Issue 404 in all it's Mauser regalia makes me swoon. | |||
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Oddly enough. The Remington 700 does have a couple of things going for it that other actions don't, or no longer have. (1) It does not have to be fed from the magazine. (2) It is a time proven design and not only works but does work well in adverse conditions. (3) It doesn't matter where you go in the world. You can probably buy a model 700 parts kit in just about any sporting goods store if something does go wrong. If you understand how the three bolt sizes are marked you can also get a kit with a bolt that will headspace correctly. (The kit has a bolt assembly, trigger assembly, stock and barrel & action body) Just throw away what you don't need.  When I was a kid. I had the stick. I had the rock. And I had the mud puddle. I am as adept with them today, as I was back then. Lets see today's kids say that about their IPods, IPads and XBoxes in 45 years! Rod Henrickson | |||
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Now if it had just been adopted with a short action it would have been an improvement. That fairy-tail thought of converting them to .300 WinMag never materialized, at least not while I was using one. Dave In 100 years who of us will care? An armed society is a polite society! Just because they say you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you. | |||
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The 404 Jeffery cartridge has a larger case head than the 300 or 375 H&H magnums so if starting out with an action for the H&H magnum then yes you will have to have the bolt face opened up. If a Mauser type claw extractor then probably very little if any adjustment needed. The original Mauser barrels for the 404 had 6 grooves and lands and a twist of 16.53" although my Mauser 404 opened up from a 10.75x68 has a 14.17" twist and stabilises the heavier 404 bullets no problem. | |||
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True, but opening up bolt faces is child's play. If you start with a standard 98 Mauser, then yes, you will need quite a lot of extractor adjustment too. Easiest to convert? That would be a standard M70 Mag action; like a 7mm Rem; reason is that they are by far the cheapest and easiest to get, and that bolt face thing is not hard to do. Neither is the mag box. | |||
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So, just for clarification: no GMA, no Dakota, no "properly tuned" MRC, either? What does that do for us lefties? | |||
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I've owned, and liked, a CZ550. About as close to the Mauser design, without being a Mauser, as one can get. They are not always a turn-key hunting rifle, but don't take much to get there. The 550 American Safari Magnum is available in left handed. Matt FISH!! Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984: "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." | |||
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My 404 is on a VZ-24 action. It had to have the frame rails opened, the bolt face opened up; pretty much as dpcd says simple work for a competent M98 gunsmith. | |||
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In summary what I learned so far (I think) is the easiest method is to rebarrel a 300 RUM rifle to 404. With most people feeling that a model 70 (New Haven) was the best rifle. You answered your question. Simple barrel swap and headspacing. Done deal.  Doug Humbarger NRA Life member Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 72'73. Yankee Station Try to look unimportant. Your enemy might be low on ammo. | |||
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I am not trying to fight with you either. In the Glacier Guides bear hunting film available from Safari Press Jimmy Rosenbuch spends a few minutes talking about bring a Remington in a caliber 375 or bigger or don't come. Craig Boddington wrote an article about a hunt with Rosenbuchs (or was in a hunting video) and Mutt and Jimmy basically said they wanted hunters to bring Remington's chambered in 375 and above. So I have seen him claim it twice. Look I was a military armourer, what I know about guns would fit in the toenails you clipped into the garbage can compared to the majority of you gunmakers and rifle smiths. Not in this to start a fight. I enjoy what I learn from all of you. | |||
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I think he does..... come to think of it. I spoke to him once on the phone about 10 years ago, and I visited his hunting museum in Utah with my family. I would personally not choose to hunt with him. I like to cuss and I like to drink beer at the end of a hunt. Rosenbruchs are Mormons and probably wouldn't approve. So why start drama? | |||
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Thank you to those that answered my questions. Jim | |||
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They also claim that you need a .375 to hunt black bears ! Which either proves the fact that 1: most guides and PH's are no more knowledgeable about rifles and calibers than the average hunter, or 2: they are insinuating that their black bears are so big that regular calibers will not kill them. Which leads us back to #1. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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I think Mutt is perpetuating the same myth. Boddington and Wife hunted with her in the past few years and Craig said they Mutt and Co were not happy with what Boddington's wife had brought to hunt with. Not sure if it was a 30-06 or what. He is the only outfitter I know of in the world that has a Weatherby award, maybe the clientele he is schmoozing are all Weatherby Award/Safari Club types and they eat the BS straight from their hands. Boddington has probably killed 30-40 bears, he was a professional in the tv show and didn't speak ill of the Glacier Guides outfit about their rules. Experiences may differ! | |||
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Duane, I have hunted with 9 different PH's. 6 had push feeds, 3 had CRF's (one Mauser, One CZ and one Winchester). On a lion hunt and on a buffalo hunt, the PH's had push feeds. I just finished a safari where the PH's said it did not matter to them as long as you can shoot. They were both experienced Zim guys. I use both types of actions and can't tell the difference other than a push feed is easier to load. If I were building a .404, I would use a Winchester CRF or Mauser - agreeing with you on that point for sure. | |||
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I am only personally acquainted with one PH. His only rifle for backing up clients is a M70 in .458WM. Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
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I would be curious how many clients on african dangerous game hunts are killed or maimed each year from their rifle failing? | |||
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There are probably a significant number of people who want a .404 and get one every year, only to then decide they didn't want one and now want to sell it. If I wanted one, which I don't, I would start cruising gun racks, attending gun shows, and placing wanted ads on forums like this one. As far as cheap, a good choice might be to consider a Mark X .375 Action. I bought one for $300 a few years ago. The magazine box has been lengthened, etc. Bolt handle work already done. Comes with a trigger safety so you wouldn't have to change out the safety and trigger as you would on a 98 conversion. Open the bolt face, tweak the rails, and your in business. | |||
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Thank you for the advice. Jim | |||
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You wouldn't hunt with him because he is Mormon? Aren't you awesome. | |||
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I've seen people have good luck with CRF Model 70s in 300 RUM. You can get then cheap and rebarrel. If it happens to have a bull barrel, you can probably rebore, not sure if you need to sit back or not. The 300 RUM magazines have the extra room in them, if I remember the Winchesters have windows cut in the sides. On the question other debate here, pushfeed versus CRF, I've hunted dangerous game with both, but only CRF in Africa, push feed in Alaska. Since I sold my CRF 375 H&H recently, and use my Mauser M03 375 H&H in Alaska; I'd say I'm exclusively CRF here on out in Africa with my 458 Win (Mark X) and 404 Jeffery (1917). I think both of those rifles are bit heavy for Alaska. "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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I just finished converting a Rem 700 300 RUM to a 404 Jeff and am quite happy with it. I did add some weight to the stock to bring it up to 9.5 pounds without ammo. Shoots great, feeds flawlessly. | |||
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Hopefully not splitting hairs, but would a Model 70 in 416 Rem Mag be suitable for conversion and possibly a rebore with minor feet adjustments or is it way more difficult than that? I see 416 Rem Mags show up for sale after the owner fired a box of ammo and didn't like it. Dave | |||
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