KE,
you meant to say that if it didn't hit bone it wouldn't EXPAND, right?

I load my sons 458 win to a max of 3.15 oal (it's in a short mexican mauser) and use low 6x grains of rel 7 and rem 405 bullets... we get prety good veoloity from them


the 350 is designed for 458/460 impacts.. in fact, in the 450 marlin, it's accurate as alll get out, but doesn't open... the 300 gr hp is a BOMB... i would rather, and will, use the 405 rem in my 45/70s if speed required to be under 2k

jeffe

Yes I have Lyman reloading book and they show that they reach +2100 fps with Speer 400 grains bullet at 37.000 CUP and OAL 2.640 (57 grains Reloader 7 without compression). I think that I reach my goal in velocity with the 45-70, and it�s make it more easy and cheaper to get brass. I�m serious when I said that Hornady 350 grains RN looks much better in a 45-70 than in a 458 WM or 45-100. I have a freind here in Sweden that use to hunt Moose with his 458 WM loaded with Hornady 350 grains RN to 2100 fps. He has shoot 8 moose with that load at a range of 100 to 160 yards. All of those got down of one bullet. If the bullet hit a bone it didn�t penetrate out, but if not it allways disappear in the forest. The bullet expand to near one inch, but if he let it go faster the bullet don�t holds together.

He don�t like Speer 350 grains becourse of smaller expand. I think that the Hornady 350 grains bullet hit the moose at around 1700 fps. So, if I like to push a 350 grains bullet faster I need to choose another bullet I think. Here in Sweden they did a test about killing power of different calibers on Moose. The winner was 9.3x57 with 285 grains bullet at 2060 fps meassured at the barrel. They had no bigger caliber in that test, but they compared with 9.3x62 with the same bullet at 2362 fps too.

All Moose hit of the 9.3x57 died within 30 meters area, most on the place there they had been shoot. This caliber don�t outpenetrate if it hit a bone, but the bullet is allways inside of the skin on other side.

I also know a friend who have shoot 7 Moose with his 45-70 loaded with a 400 grains flatpoint Woodleigh at 1968 fps meassured at the barrel (62 grains Norma 202) and a Marlin Model 1895. The bullet expand to near one inch and allways outpenetrate if it not hit a bone. All of his Moose died on the place their they had been shoot.

Maybe this is true, that a bullet at at 2000 fps kill better than a bullet at 2400 fps if the bullet are maded to expand at that velocity. But one thing is true anyway, we must allways hit the target on the right place, don�t matter if the caliber is big or small.

I a artikel some years ago I read about a test of 450-400 Martin Henry. They tried to hunt with that caliber in Africa loaded with Blackpowder and cast bullets. 500 grains bullet at 1350 fps from 85 grains of blackpowder. First they shoot a pig, and he died direct. The bullet outpenetrate offcourse. The second animal was a big Cudu (or what they call it, bigger than a milkcow). They hit him in the throat at 80 yards. They found the bullet in his tail one feet in. All the bullets where maded from soft lead. When they hunted buffalo they used hard lead. They where very impressed of that old blackpowder cartridges killingpower. I don�t remember if they killed any elphant, but I remember that they killed buffalo and had outpenetrated bullets on that too.

Now, if I choose to go on a 45-70 I�m sure that I gonna to buy a High Wall rifle from Uberti in caliber 45-90 and sell my brass for 45-100. I have an Pedersoli Sharps in caliber 45-110, but I really like the Highwall rifles. My 45-70 must be in a rifle there the pressure limits is as in the Ruger No 1.

By the way. I like to show some testing of rifles from the factory.
Pedersoli Sharps 45-70: 2000 bar = 29.007 PSI
Pedersoli Rolling Block 45-70: 1241 bar = 18.000 PSI
Armi Sports Sharps 45-70: 2.860 bar = 41.470 PSI
Uberti Highwall 45-70: 3.220 bar = 46.690 PSI

The 45-120, 45-110, 45-100 and 45-90 are tested at lower pressure than 45-70 from all factories.

Best regards
Karl-Erik

Karl, my data is very simple! I use 60 grains of RE 7 with both the 400 grain Barnes Original semi-spitzer bullet and the 457122HP cast bullet. I have also used 63 grains of IMR 3031 with the cast bullet, and the MV turns out to be almost exactly the same as is produced by 60 grains of RE 7. However, my "standard", all-round hunting load for the .45/70 is the old Elmer Keith 1886 Winchester load of 53 grains of IMR 3031 with any 400 to 405-grain bullet like the Speer. This load is good out to about 150 yards as far as trajectory goes, kills well, and does not take your shoulder out of joint!

I think you can achieve your goal with a 22" barrel. I haven't personally loaded a 45-70 to those levels, but don't think case life will be an issue, as the pressures should at 458 win mag levels, or a tad less.

Hi!

I rebarrel my Ruger no 1 from 243 Win to something in caliber 45. But it�s difficult to choose between 45-70 and 45-100 right now. I allready have a 458 WM and 458 Lott in caliber 45 in bolt rifles and also one .500 NE on a Ruger no 1.

I like to reach +2100 fps with 400 grains bullets and 2200 fps with 350 grains bullet in this rifle and I think 45-70 is good for that when I�m looking at load data from Accurate powder for the caliber 450 Marlin and 45-70.

I�m fraid about the case life if I load 45-70 that high, but I don�t know, maybe there is no problem with that at all.

Now, I wonder if anyone here would like to help me to choose on this two calibers, and maybe answer my question about the case life. I would be greatful if anyone had load data for the caliber 45-70 too.

Best regards
Karl-Erik kalle.kes@telia.com

Unless you were interested in cast bullets, paper patched bullets, black powder and all that fun stuff I would choose a 458 WM. Straining to get big power out of the 45-70 seems like an odd exersize. You have a modern action fully capable of chambering a cartridge using thicker brass. I certinly would not choose the 45-120 if you were only interested in smokeless. If you wanted a BP thumper using paper patched bullets it would be great fun. Brass will be expensive.

Yes I�m sure you have right. My rifle weight is about +10 pounds with a heavy barrel 26". I allready have 200 brass in caliber 45-100, and 500 brass in caliber 45-70. I think the pressure on your load is about 50 000 PSI. My gunsmith oppinion is that only use a good 400 grains bullets for hunting moose.

I have reloading data for 458 WM (start loads) that gives 2310 fps and 39 000 CUP and I think that load is okey for the 2.6" 45-100 brass. The 45-100 brass from Starline is built in the same strenght as 45-70 brass.

Sometimes it�s more fun to have a caliber that it�s not common, that�s the reason for my 500 NE.

I would be greatful to get your reloading data if you like.

Best regards

Karl-Erik

Karl-Erik,
Another consideration is the relative prices of the brass. On this side of the pond Starline .45-90 2.4" is twice the price of .45-70 2.2". If it lasts half as long, it would be a break-even situation. The .45-100 2.6" would cost still more.
I have a Ruger #3 in .45-70 that a friend loaded to the hilt. (It was my loaner until I got the #3 rechambered to .375 H&H.) His hundred loads will last longer than my shoulder. Those cases seem to be about everlasting.
Cheers from Darkest California,
Ross