Some of the earlier comments mentioned the importance of tooling. Tooling is as important as the machine. For this reason I recommend that you find a good used machine that is fully tooled. Just be sure the machine is still in nice condition. Most hobby type users will never use one hard enough to cause any significant wear.
Years ago I used BP, Excello and Index machines. My preference is for the Excello however they are not common in my area.
I can also vouch for the Monarch and Hardinge toolroom lathes and the 15" Leblond Regal.
I ran many older engine and turret lathes
from 13" toolroom lathes to 36" oil tool machines and the 3 machines above were the cream of the crop. For my use I would want 2 lathes. For collet work I prefer the Monarch and the Hardinge. For most 3 or 4 jaw work (gun barrel) I prefer the much longer Leblond 15"
Ed

I have an HLV-H and its a joy to operate. When I bought it, I never thought I would one day want to do any barrel work. Now I do, so I may try to get something just for that kind of work. I still have to keep the Hardinge.

Kory

I have an Acer, and have used Enco, Grizzly, Jet and older Bridgeports.
The Acer is great. Best I have used
I think we set ours up for about $8K with 2 axis DRO, a good vice, collet set and clamp set.

Ours is a Ev -EVM model with a 48" bed.
It is so smooth and accurate compared to what I have used before in the smithing trade. I really like the frequency speed control. You just turn a little knob for speed change. No messing with changing pullies and stuff.

I will buy another as soon as we need one, maybe even set it up with a CNC add-on.

Celt

Blue,

When I started to set up a shop of my own, I couldn't afford a new Bridgeport. I was working for a large electronics company and they were interested in a new CNC milling center. I was sent around to local shops looking at machine tools. In one shop , in the cornor was 2 ENCO bridgeport type machines. I asked the owner how they were and he loved them, so I bought one from ENCO. Because I cut a lot of octagons, I bought on with a 48-inch table. Sometime less is more, so I bought the step pulley model, knowing spare parts down the road might be a problem. I paid around $4,500 for the machine, power X axis power feed and digital readout. It's been a great machine, I bought it in 1990, so I have a few years on it.

Now after saying that, I went to an auction last Thrusday, a company got in trouble with the tax man, and saw a used Bridgeport go for $400. That's right, no typeo, $400.

Lots of machinery auction companies around that will put you on their mailing list. I get at least one auction bill a month for some production shop selling out in lower Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, and Michigan.

I bought my Bridgeport J-head in Dayton for $1400, was in service at the GM truck plant there, with a Sony DRO. Found this one on Ebay...

I'm not totally satisfied with it, I'd like to have the table reground, but the scraping on the ways is good, and the screws and nuts are pretty decent too. But, I didn't spend $5000 on it either(Imports), or the $11,500 or so for a new Bridgeport. Accuracy wise, its about all I really need.

Although I've been thinking about a smaller Clausing mill 8500 series for the light work...hmm.

I think the quality on most import machines is about the same, most are works in progress, ie the home shop machinist is well advised to give it a once over to remove any casting grit and other crud, and zero the machine in. Because the quality of the machines can be hit and miss, customer service is paramount. I haven't dealt with Enco since they were bought out a few years back, but the old Enco was about bottom of the barrel with customer service. I have used Grizzly, as they have reasonable shipping rates to Alaska, and have been excellent when dealing with an item that was damaged in shipping. Jet has a pretty good reputation, but I'd probably go with Grizzly, as they have better pricing, and I'd rather plunk the savings into tooling. A $3500 mill w/ $1500 worth of tooling is much more useful than a $5k mill with no tooling.

I would generally stay away from the import tooling. An import mill with a Kurt vise, good collets etc is a pretty useful tool. Any mill with a junk vice and tooling will do so/so work at best.

I would try to buy a used BP rather than a new machine simply for the spare part situation. Even though BP is out of Business, virtually every part except for the major castings is available. This isn't going to change 20 years from now, you can't say the same for the imports. If your not going to buy a BP, Think Lagun, Tree, Chevalier and Late model Enco's(the earlier ones sucked), the Newer Jets aren't bad either. If you want a real beast of a machine, try to get a Cincinnati Toolmaster - it's a much better machine than a Bridgeport, but much harder to find used.One thing though, they are a bitch to move without a forklift. Try to buy a machine at Auction - latemodel Series1 BP's go in the $2K range and you can pick up alot of quality tooling too for significantly less(Kurt's usually go for about $125) Look online for auction listings, also try the classified of the nearest major newspaper(New York Times, Chicago Tribune, Washington Post) I can also give you the name of a reputable Machinery Dealer in NJ if you want - keep in mind machinery can be shipped fairly cheap anywhere in the US.

Toolmaker

Acer! Dammit, I knew I forgot one! Of course I would have suggested to look for a lightly used one. If I was to spend five figures, I'd get this:


With a base price of about 20K, available financing and options like an add on toolchanger that you can add as you can afford it(you don't have to order options when you get the machine) The CNC/Manual control, 7.5HP motor and the ability of using single phase 220 made me seriously consider it. Ultimatly I decided to wait till I can lay hands on a VF series VMC because I want to open a machine shop and that means producing stuff in quantity, Fast.

Toolmaker

I've got some stock work that will most likely get put on one of those, as I figured they'd be just the ticket, but I figured blue was trying to stay within a bit of a budget.

As far as options to add on at a later date.....better off getting them on there in the first place, rather than letting the install boys come out and work their magic. Basically, you better have stocked up on some Vaseline and be ready to "assume the position".
When you actually break down the financing on the options, you're really only talking probably $50.00-$150.00 more per month. Don't take long to absorb that cost for sure.

What really looks handy is the toolroom lathe. That would make one fine barrel chambering machine, to say the least.

Running a lathe with a DRO is quite a treat and I've been threatening to throw one on our Jet lathe for a couple of years, but it always seems to get thrown to the backburner .....Go figure ehh. Having a full manual lathe with DRO, plus the ability to CNC thread barrels, making screws, etc.,etc., seems awful appealing, especially for only 20 biguns.

Blue, I once spent 28 hours in Minneapolis, it was the longest 28 hours of my life. The place was clean, the people polite and no graffiti anywhere. It also had a distinct lack of drinking establishments and the only point of interest is the Mall of America. I'm a Machinist and I'm from the big Apple - I expect hostility just getting the Mail! Also with that particular combo, each being well known for using profanity, I occasionaly use the "F" word as both a verb and an adjective... Sorry, but I've got a job interview soon(I hope!) that will allow me to move to the "promised land" - the Poconos!(seriously, theres a place in the poconos called the promised land) Besides, I don't have the kind of cabbage it would take to buy a machine shop(at least any machine shop I would want to buy)

Toolmaker

Matt, believe it or not, when I first saw them, I thought they'd be the ticket for barrel turning - no more keeping a variety of contours in stock in each cal & twist - when the order comes in, just plop it on and let it go while you do other things. The fact that it can make multiple passes unattended means you can take smaller bites each time rather than big bites like you would do with a tracer. This lessens the likelyhood of a barrel warping due to sudden massive stress relief. At least that's my theory.



What I was originally looking at was the "mini mill" because it would be able to fit in my garage without going through the floor and would run on single phase. Then I started thinking about the small price difference between that and a VF-0, and the VF-0 is a helluva lot more versatile than the mini mill. What I would really like(if I won the lottery) is one of the new VF-4SS machines - 50 inch table, 30HP, and 12K RPM(mmmmm, haas, aalllllggggh) unfortunatly I don't see having the 100K plus for a loaded out VF4-SS in the near future. Right now I'm concentrating on buying a house(hpefully in 2 years if this job works out) and then I'm going to try to get a Haas at auction - the bigger and faster the better.



Toolmaker

ahhhhhhhhhhh what to say!!! this topic sometimes drives me nuts

Whatever you buy, get a 54 inch table. Plenty of room to set up a barreled action ONCE!!! for any work you may need fore and aft. Remember, table travel is less than table length.



I have an ENCO, but would have bought an ACER if the budget allowed. I have power feed and a Sargon digital. Also have both mist and flooded coolant systems. A good coolant system is an end mill saver.



Mine came with step pulley drive and a two speed motor. Electric motors on imports are junk!! Motor failed a few months later. Replaced it with a US made 2 HP DC Reliance motor and Reliance Variable speed DC drive. This is the only way to go: Step pulley drive, back gears, and variable speed DC motor. Neat. Some folks say Frequency Controlled AC Drives, but I like the DC, as DC has full torque at start. Also have a Reliance DC unit on one of my lathes. The drive package on both has a circuit that uses the DC motor as a generator and bleeds the current across a resistor when the motor is shut off, acts as a spindle brake and stops things fast.



Carefull on used units, especially if from a production shop. Sorry, but few production folks and machine operators understand proper care and lubrication of machine tools.

About 6 months ago we bought a new Sharpe with the larger table(12x54? don't remember), servo drives on all three axis,DRO,40 taper spindle, and power drawbar for about $15,000. Think that was with several tool holders as well. The 40 taper really makes it a mill, much better than the R-8!

Since this a related question, I recently heard of a lathe I could pick up used. The description - so far as I have available - is below. My question is would this be a decent lathe for a rookie that wants to do some simple barrel work. I can get an expert machinist to look at it with me, but from what you see here, is this worth my time?
Brent

10" South Bend with a 30" bed. It's 110 volt so you wouldn't need any special hookups. Plus it has quick change gears., and also has a stand. Has a three and four jaw chuck with it, plus some other stuff I can't remember offhand. $500. Supposed to be in good shape

It is definately worth looking at, and quickly. The "other stuff" mentioned might be worth a bit too. If it has been advertised be aware that other people have looked at it most likely, and if it is still for sale it may have big problems.

Brent, if you do get it, shit can the little 110v motor and put the biggest 220v motor on it you can find. HP makes a big difference in these machines. Do you know any Machinists? Have them take a looksee, they'll know what to look for to determine a "gem" from "junk"

Toolmaker

what toolmaker said!!

a 1.5 or 2hp 220 motor NEW is 250.... used, 20-50

jeffe

Generally there are two kinds of phases, Single and Three. Single Phase comes into your house. It consists of two 110v hot legs(180 degrees out of phase with one another) and ground. It is used on things like electric stoves, electric dryers and central airconditioning compressors. Virtually all Consumer oriented power tools that use 220v are single phase. Some industrial equipment is single phase two, mostly light duty stuff and oddly alot of electric welders. Three phase on the other hand, consists of three 110v legs(120 degrees out of phase with one another), plus a ground. It is pretty much the standard for industrial equipment. It has the advantage of using a third less power than single phase. It also costs more in terms of $/kilowatt. And, oh, it virtually impossible to get in a residential dwelling in most locals. The way us garage machinists get around this little problem is a phase converter. There are two kinds, static and rotary. I've got both. In fact I'm wiring a three phase panel off of the rotary phase converter, this way I can run new lines to machines as I get more of them. Keep in mind you have to have a phase converter bigger than your startup draw. Here's a link.. You also might want to try a google search for more info.

Toolmaker

JeffeOsso, I was thinking more along the lines of a 5HP compressor motor, Northern Tool sells a 3450RPM, 56HZ frame 5HP compressor duty motor for $170USD. It's made by Leeson I believe. It's about the biggest thing in a 56frame available. Also does wonders on vertical bandsaws and drillpresses.