Got a M70 Win in the shop 2 weeks ago with a one-piece Leupold base and rings mounting a Swarovski 50 mm scope. Customer complained it would not regulate to 100 yds (not enough vertical adjustment, shoots too low). Customer wanted to add two .010 steel base shims inside the rear lower ring to correct. I informed front desk mgt that it was not the correct way to do that since it would place the scope tube in a bind. So I placed the shims under the rear of the base and bore-sighted the scope with plenty of adjustment room.

Customer brings back outfit a week later and says it won't regulate. Still too low. I look at the barrel and there is still the green oxide in the bore that was in it the week before, I.E. it had not been shot. Informed front desk- didn't care. Forced to put the shims in the scope ring and miraculously now it now groups?

Can't win for losing.

So, you had to remove the shims from under the base and replace them with the shims in the scope ring? Maybe you need a new front desk

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
Got a M70 Win in the shop 2 weeks ago with a one-piece Leupold base and rings mounting a Swarovski 50 mm scope. Customer complained it would not regulate to 100 yds (not enough vertical adjustment, shoots too low). Customer wanted to add two .010 steel base shims inside the rear lower ring to correct. I informed front desk mgt that it was not the correct way to do that since it would place the scope tube in a bind. So I placed the shims under the rear of the base and bore-sighted the scope with plenty of adjustment room.

Customer brings back outfit a week later and says it won't regulate. Still too low. I look at the barrel and there is still the green oxide in the bore that was in it the week before, I.E. it had not been shot. Informed front desk- didn't care. Forced to put the shims in the scope ring and miraculously now it now groups?

Can't win for losing.

I guess you have to go shoot it and then give it to him with a nice group.

What is the difference where you put the shims? It will put stress on the scope with either unless you lap the rings after shimming, or, bed the scope to the rings.

You were, of course, correct in putting the shims under the ONE piece base (that is why there would be no scope binding, it is a one piece base).
Your front desk, whomever, is a non value added component of your organization. I wanted to say he or she was an idiot; I won't do that.
Oh, yeah, so is the customer.

Are idiots hard to come by in the gun business, ha!

Dave

Could be worse!

I bet it holds zero though. People put too much stock in cosmetics anyway.

Not likely.
Those Mini14s were pretty hard on scopes. Unless it was an air rifle scope designed for "reverse recoil"

The ranch rifle version supposedly had a buffer system that worked for normal rifle scopes.

The worst scope shimming I ever had to do was in Sheep camp in Alaska in 1986

I was sharing the camp with another hunter and guide from the same outfitter.

The hunter came back about the 3rd day pissed off because he missed a nice ram. I glanced over and OMG his scope tube was bent down. I asked him IF he had taken a fall, Of Course NOT. Well take a good look at your scope.

Was off over 18" low at 100 yds, plus it was a older Leupold 3x9. The next day we got rained in so I pulled my tool kit out and tore it all down. Had the guide cut shims from some Alum foil. It got to where I only had two threads of base screw in the receiver due to the shims under the front base. About 3/32" thickness of foil, talk about looking bad. But we got the rifle sighted in with an inch of adjustment to spare.

The hunter went out the next day and got a Ram, but as they got back to camp the plane came in to check on us and they loaded up and took off. I never got to see his Ram or taste it.

J Wisner
ACCG Member

I have owned two mini 14s and one 30; none had any scope issues.
But, here is a true story; 25 years ago a friend and I were in SD shooting prairie dogs. He had a Tasco scope of a high power variable I don't remember, on his Ruger #1 22-250. heavy barrel. Had it slung, and of course, the upper sling swivel came loose and it dropped to the ground, scope first. Bent the scope about 1/2 inch; he had a back up rifle so no problem. Back home, I took the scope, and figuring I couldn[t hurt it any worse, smacked it on a block of wood a few times, and straightened it out. He gave it to another friend who put it on a bolt action, caliber I forgot, and he proceeded to shoot .5 MOA groups with it for a year. Until I said he should call Tasco and tell them the story.
They wanted to use it as an advertising thing, and gave him a new scope. They never did use it that I heard of.
It baffled me, but it happened.
Sorry, has nothing to do with scope mounts.

Something about this story worries me even more than it should. I have mounted a few reticle-movement scopes over the years on European rifles (with dovetails) and never needed more than a moderate shim to get the non-centred reticle acceptably close to the middle.

Is it common for American barrel-mount alignment to be so far out even image-movement can't fix it?

It worries me too. We had just mounted his Swarovski scope he had sent in for a repair of some sort. He claimed that it had been mounted with two steel base shims in the bottom of the rear ring. Said the scope didn't have enough adjustment for elevation before and wanted it back like it was. When I mounted the scope it bore sighted fine with plenty of adjustment. It was only a 50 mm in high mounts. And as I stated earlier he sent the rifle back claiming he couldn't regulate it. Which was a lie. The rifle had not been fired in some time as evidenced by the verdigris in the bore. I think the scope would have been fine with no shims. He was just fixated that he had to have it back like it was. Perhaps that's what damaged the scope initially? Front desk didn't want to challenge.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
Something about this story worries me even more than it should. I have mounted a few reticle-movement scopes over the years on European rifles (with dovetails) and never needed more than a moderate shim to get the non-centred reticle acceptably close to the middle.

Is it common for American barrel-mount alignment to be so far out even image-movement can't fix it?

Not common at all. I have never had a factory drilled rifle and off the shelf mounts and even cheap scopes, fail to zero. Now, some I drilled after I had had too many Capt Morgans and Coke; maybe.

You had to put Coke in Captain Morgan? I thought you only needed Coke to cover the sheep-dip smell of a brand made here.

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
Not likely.
Those Mini14s were pretty hard on scopes. Unless it was an air rifle scope designed for "reverse recoil"

The ranch rifle version supposedly had a buffer system that worked for normal rifle scopes.

Mine shoots patterns at 100 yards, has never been much better than four inches. Now I wonder how much of that is rifle and how much is scope...

Nice clean welds on that Mini 14, eh?