I have a 270 that wrecks scopes.I believe the scopes mounts(2 piece) are out of line.I switched to a one piece leupold base and it seemed fixed,until i removed scope for some bedding and noticed a huge gouge from the front ring on the underside of the tube.I put a different scope on it and it wrecked it in two shots,as it has done with a few other scopes.These have been cheap scopes,but I thought a one piece base should take care of it,if the rings are out of line.I would hate to put a decent scope on it and wreck it.
I am taking it to the smith when I get a chance to see how the rings align.It does kick hard for a 270,but come on.anybody got any ideas?

With the Burris Signature rings and their plastic inserts you should get rid of almost any misalignement.

You could also lap or ream your rings so that they are parallel on the axis. Brownells sells both types of tools.

jb, what kind of rifle? Taking it to the smith certainly sounds in order, there is something wrong for sure--almost sounds like the base where the ring is digging into the scope is VERTICALLY misaligned??? I'd have your smith check the alignment with your barrel and vertical differential too, although if vertical is off very much, you wouldn't be able to get on target at all--can you get on target OK?

Sounds like a major PITA--

Good Luck

You need this:


http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?s...id=227261&t=11082005


It's Midway's scope ring alignment and lapping kit. It has 2 alignment bars that will show you any misalignment of your scope rings. It also comes with a lapping bar and compound to make your rings fit near perfect.
At $38.99 it's a lot cheaper than more scopes......................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by wildboar:
With the Burris Signature rings and their plastic inserts you should get rid of almost any misalignement.

Once you use the Burris Signatures, you realize all other Ring Designs are at least one generation behind. Buy one box of the Eccentric Inserts when you get the Rings and you can center the scope on most any rifle without having to use up all the Scope Adjustment.

Burris Signatures eliminate the need to do all the lapping, shimming, crow-baring and voodoo chants - only to find out the Scope is pointed off somewhere in the wrong direction. Crank in all the scope adjustment and realize you still need more shims - pitiful.

Best of luck to those of you still wasting time and effort with the Lapping and Shimming.

the rifle sights in and shoots pretty well,usually around an inch or so with most loads.I agree it is vertically misaligned,which is why I went back to a one piece base,which held one scope together for a year or so,anyway.My gunsmith has the alignment tools and lapping stuff,if I can get ahold of him.Its only my back up gun,so Im ok if it doesnt get fixed soon.
The brand of gun is a Raptor Arms brand. uses a rem 700 base.Pretty much identical to the mossberg atr.I carry it when its raining or a very wet snow.I got 2 deer with it last year,so its not useless, but I already had to fix it once (crunchy threads in the guard screws)after I bought it,Now I will need to put more money in to it to keep it in service.I also noted the recoil shoulder is about 1/8" away from the abutement in the stock,so when it gets bedded it may shoot a little better.At least I dont have to pay someone to fix that part.

A lot of custom rifle actions that use rem 700 bases actually use two FRONT bases rather than a rear and Front base. Not sure on the raptor action.

John

quote:

Once you use the Burris Signatures, you realize all other Ring Designs are at least one generation behind. Buy one box of the Eccentric Inserts when you get the Rings and you can center the scope on most any rifle without having to use up all the Scope Adjustment.

Burris Signatures eliminate the need to do all the lapping, shimming, crow-baring and voodoo chants - only to find out the Scope is pointed off somewhere in the wrong direction. Crank in all the scope adjustment and realize you still need more shims - pitiful.

Ok Hotcore

One of the great mystery questions for the ages. Answer this mystery question.
1. What in hell is taking so long for Leupold and the rest to copy the spherical inserts.
2. Why did it take decades for everyone to adopt choke tubes?
3. Why do they still make .44 Magnum rifles with the 38" twist?
4. Given me one good reason to continue using Berdan primers.
5. Why do people cut their rifle barrels off 8 to 10 inches and then load 5 more grains of powder in the case to make it go faster?

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:

5. Why do people cut their rifle barrels off 8 to 10 inches and then load 5 more grains of powder in the case to make it go faster?

The pretty flame, of course.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hot Core:

Once you use the Burris Signatures, you realize all other Ring Designs are at least one generation behind.

QUOTE]

Personaly I hate both them and the sako optilocks. Great for those of us who buy second hand scopes (tubes unmarked) I'll grant but when I get a scope I put it in a set of quality rings (eg the old Warne Premiers) on a quality firearm (eg an old Sako) and leave it there until I die.

The plastic inserts are a fix for poor quality control and/or engineering, they shouldn't be required.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
...One of the great mystery questions for the ages. Answer this mystery question.
1. What in hell is taking so long for Leupold and the rest to copy the spherical inserts.
2. Why did it take decades for everyone to adopt choke tubes?
3. Why do they still make .44 Magnum rifles with the 38" twist?
4. Given me one good reason to continue using Berdan primers.
5. Why do people cut their rifle barrels off 8 to 10 inches and then load 5 more grains of powder in the case to make it go faster?

Hey Ireload2, Beats me.

I seem to remember someone making a similar design for Sinclair but it has some kind of "metal"(maybe aluminum) Eccentric Inserts. And I seem to remember they are a good bit more expensive than the Burris Signatures.

There are plenty of more $$expensive$$ Rings on the market if a person wants to spend the money and have less efficient and less effective Rings which have a 99.99% opportunity for Alignment problems. Those excellent Synthetic Inserts get a tenacious grip on a scope tube and never let it slip, never mar the scope tube, and never clamp it so the tube is the in a constant twisted stress condition.

It is simply an excellent use of a High Quality Synthetic, whose best Design Features are impossible to duplicate with steel(or aluminum). For those of us that enjoy shooting at distance, the Burris Signatures also eliminate the need for Tapered Bases. There just aren't enough words to describe how wonderful that is. And a person who only takes up-close shots would never understand why they are so much better for the distance shooting.

Another amazing thing about them is the reasonable cost for a Design which leaves all others in the dust of a by-gone era.

I can see why the Gun Smiths would not want to use them - no need to charge for the unnecessary Lapping, Shimming, and Hocus-Pokus. And I can see why Traditionalists that prefer antiquated Designs of the past would want to maintain that aura(I prefer `50s & `60s music). As for me, I like`um!

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills to all you folks.

quote:

The plastic inserts are a fix for poor quality control and/or engineering, they shouldn't be required.

Actually I would prefer to have the plastic inserts even on a perfectly aligned rifle just to keep the optics centered as best possible and to avoid scratching the tube. It is nice to be able to mount a high magnification scope for testing and then replace it with something more sane for hunting.

Shoot enough rifles, mount enough scopes and you will eventually wish you had them.

Another vote for the Burris system. Hot Core and ireload2 gets it. Well put gentlemen.

You may also need to use a shim between one end of the base and the receiver. Sinclair used to sell such things; I presume Brownells still does.

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
The plastic inserts are a fix for poor quality control and/or engineering, they shouldn't be required.

The need for plastic inserts has nothing to do with the quality of the rings themselves. The need for the inserts is a result in the variance of the rifle recievers.......................DJ

I glass the mounts to the receiver while aligned.

I am really down on lapping Weaver rings, like fear and superstition in a primitive culture.

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

The need for plastic inserts has nothing to do with the quality of the rings themselves. The need for the inserts is a result in the variance of the rifle recievers.......................DJ

Often it has nothing to do with receiver variance and everything to do with misdrilled holes. Then again, sometimes it is both.

I would try securing the one piece base with just the front screws and leave the rear screw out. With the front secured in place it would show if the base is not right for the action or a gap under it. By tightening down both front and rear it will pull down the back and put the base in a bind for the rings. I had a Mauser that way once. It didn't take much to put the thing in a bind. I secured the front screws down tight with the back sitting in a bed of Acra Glass stainless steel bed mixture til it set up. Used longer screw in the back hole after it hardened. it worked just fine and eliminated the bind.

ol crip ,you called it,it needed a .050 shim under the rear mount. .050!

Wow, that's a hell of a lot. Was it the wrong base or was the rear bridge ground too much? If it was the wrong base you might be able to get the correct one. If not, I think I would go to a gun shop that does a bunch of scope sales and mounting. Pick through their one piece bases and try them just by holding the front portion down tight by hand and find one that comes as close as possible on the back bridge. Once you find your match, remove the new one and clamp the two together back to back and transfer the holes to the new base if they don't already line up. Re drill the new base to accept the holes for your receiver. Try your new holes and if they are kosher, mix up a dab of steel bed under both ends with release agent on the screws and snug them down ever so slightly but firmly on the front til the bedding completely cures (24 hours or so) remove the screws and clean the threads on the screws and the receiver. I use red Locke-Tite, and secure the base to the receiver while tapping ever so gently to set up a tiny vibration during the torqueing process. You should be set for a life time of hunting without concern about scope gremlins due to a bad mount.

Another vote for the Pos-align rings from Burris

Would the burris rings work for a .050 misalignment?

.050...Those bases arent right for that rifle

not much is right for it

Arnold Jewell came out with the inserted scope rings prior to Burris. I don't know if he still makes them.
Butch

Will the Burris inserts work in other brand rings of the same size? For example, if you have a set of one inch Warne or some other rings can you use the Burris inserts to make the correction?

quote:

Originally posted by TWL:
Will the Burris inserts work in other brand rings of the same size? For example, if you have a set of one inch Warne or some other rings can you use the Burris inserts to make the correction?

No.

The "inside" of the Eccentric Ring is 1". And the "inside" of the Signature Ring is made so the Eccentric Rings fit inside them and allow them to float into a non-stressed grip on the Scope Tube until the Ring Screws are tightened.

Check the Burris Web Site and look at the "Signature" Rings. It is real easy to understand when you look at them there and even easier when in your hands.

Best of luck to you.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Arnold Jewell came out with the inserted scope rings prior to Burris. I don't know if he still makes them.
Butch

That may be the ones that Sinclair sells.

If you use a scope ring with an alignment ring in it like the Burris, your scope is still going to be at a .050 incline for the length of the base. What will that do for the amount of adjustment that is built into the scope. You may not be able to get enough elevation. Your better off trying to get the right base for your smoke pole and use the Burris rings with that base. It would not be cobbled and be done right. Just my two cents.

quote:

Originally posted by olcrip:
If you use a scope ring with an alignment ring in it like the Burris, your scope is still going to be at a .050 incline for the length of the base. ...

Not if he also gets a set of the Eccentric Inserts.

However, I do agree it is best to get a Base that fits the rifle properly.

this is the base that is supposed to fit.Once I get it shimmed correctly,I am going to glue it on and leave it.

Hey jb, There was a thread on this board about a problem with the new Browning Titanium rifles not aligning properly with the Bases provided by the regular suppliers. I have a friend who got one and sure enough it had the problem.

A call to Browning said, "If you had of bought your Bases from us you would not have had the problem!" That statement fits my impression of the Browning company and employees - exactly.

A second call to Leupold resulted in the guy asking for my buddies phone number to call him back. After an hour or so, he did get the call back from Leupold and they agreed there was indeed a problem with the Browning Titanium using the normal A-Bolt Bases. So, they sent him a Base for FREE to correct the issue. And that fits my impression of the Leupold company and employees - exactly.

You might want to check the Part# on your Base with what the Mounting Manual says it should be. Occasionally mistakes do happen and you might have just gotten the wrong Base.
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The old M7 Remington calls for a specific 1-piece Base from Weaver. If you get it, the Rear is way above the Rear portion of the action. And they sent a "Plastic Wedge" with it which I suppose is to somehow shim up the Rear. But it is not drilled and would be a real fiasco. Other companies make fine Bases for it.

Or, you can get the Short Action M700 1-piece Base, "saw off" part of the Rear and it fits just fine. I have a spare Base on the shelf just for that in case I get another old M7.
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But, you might be able to fix the situation just as you describe and I wish you well. Best of luck to you.