To talk about an action having bad gas handling properties is picking fly shit out of pepper. It cost a "fortune" to convert a military mauser action for sporter use and cost should be your #1 concern when building a custom rifle. I hope this thread continues, I'm learning so much from it.

Terry

TC1

I must respectfully differ as to your statement that cost should be the major concern when having a custom rifle built.

I would think that it would be more on the lines of getting what one wants at a fair price.

22WRF, The above post is sarcasm and nothing more. You hit the nail on the head. Both actions have strengths and weakness' The M98 has them and they were clearly stated. When one of the Pre-64's was mentioned (only when asked) some got offended.

Terry

TC1, no one is offended. I think that when describing the relative benefits of the various actions one can choose to make into a custom rifle, one has to come to the realization that nothing man made is perfect. One must assess the relative value in the final product. In the case of Winchester Pro-64 model 70's there are potentially some gas handeling issues. Potentially. Potentially you could die from a car wreck any day you drive. Do you want absolute safety then don't drive or be driven. If you want absolutely no risk with a firarm DON'T buy one. Otherwise find one you like and work with it. A mauser type action has serious issues also. Poor safety for a scope sighted rifle, less than optimal trigger for crisp let off, slower lock time therefore less accuracy potential, soft actions that tend to swell instead of bursting, etc. I find the Pre-64 model 70 an elegant rifle in its own right. I think the pre-war English and German sporters are also wonderful. It is far easier to make up a rifle from a Winchester than a Mauser in this day in time as well as far more economical.

I love pre 64 model 70s and I love mausers...I have both...

The Mauser 98 is the better of the two...I have had M-70s on several ocassions spew gas in my face and make little curlyques of smoke dance out of my pores!!

I have viewed the results seveal M-70 blow ups, not the rifles fault but blow up never the less, and they fragment like a granade...

Mausers will puff up like a baloon, even split, but not fragment and toss iron in all directions, this is why Mausers are hard on the outside and soft underneath, its by design,and this I prefer...

Bottom line is Mausers handle mistakes better than M-70s...The Mauser is a perfect battle rifle, thus a perfect hunting rifle.

The G33/40 is not only lighter, its smaller in deminsion and much more streamlined than a M-70 or a Mod.98 after conversion to a sporting rifle..It makes a better looking rifle to the experienced eye IMO..trim, slim, and compact in any rifle is nice to my eye....

In no way do I intend to flame the Win. M-70, it is one of two of the finest rifles ever to be produced and I am only pointing out the diffeences and why I personally prefer the Mauser by a lean margin...

I own both also. My Winchesters are Classics though and not Pre-64's.

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by Customstox:
Between the two I would take the Model 70. Neither of those two are world beaters in my mind, although near it, but I do think you will get the G33/40 and then try to make it like the model 70. The model 70 has a great trigger and you have to put on one the G33/40, the model 70 has a 3 pos safety already and you will install one on the G33?40, the model 70 does not need to be surface ground and the G33/40 does (well if you want it to look good it does), the model 70 has hinged bottom metal (although 2 piece) already and it will cost you $300 on the G33.40. Short cut all the work and $ and start with the end product you are trying to emulate.

Now if we are talking BRNO 21, it is a totally different story. And a new price tag too. Inegral double square bridge action, good trigger, either set or single, okay no hinged bottom metal but I will live with what they gave me on them.

You senile old fart how old are you again today?

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:

You senile old fart how old are you again today?

hehehe.....he told me yesterday he was 48.

I stick with Model 70s. They are built of better steels; they are better heat-treated; they provide a stiffer, more rigid receiver, a faster lock time, the best trigger design, etc.

And besides, I've used them extensively on many hunts for over 27 years with only superb results. I notice that most Mausers end up being largely rebuilt into psuedo Model 70s in the end anyway, so why not go with the M70 right from the get-go....

AD

There it is- Allen said it- "most Mausers end up being largely rebuilt into psuedo Model 70s in the end anyway"...

Some smiths (probably at the direction of their clients) throw out all the Mauser parts and replace them with M 70 designs. Grind off the stripper clip hump and markings until you have to ask them what action they started with anyway.

My un-expert opinion: Build the .30-06 on a Pre 64 and keep the handloads reasonable... Save the 33/40 for another project.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Soverns:

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:

You senile old fart how old are you again today?

hehehe.....he told me yesterday he was 48.

48? He told me 46 but it is really 68!

46? I believe that is belt size

Meplat,
And I can remember when I paid $68.90 plus tax for my first M-70....I got it wholesale..

...............................................

Sure the M-70 is the cheapest route and may or may not be the best route, that is opinnion..

The G33-40 will finish as a trimmer, smaller rifle IMO..I like the small rings for standard cartridges and I like custom Mausers...Dollar for dollar has little to do with my choice of guns...but my second choice other than a small ring, be it G33-40 or Brno 21 (my preference of any action) would be a M-70 pre war rifle with a proper safty..

Winchester Model 70 Pre 64

I considered it the utmost refinement of the Mauser action, and the first choice of many wanting custom rifles.

Roland

Damn, it is nice to have friends. Where else can you get this abuse.

If the pre-64 Model 70's gas-handling characteristics bother you, and they don't particularly bother me because I use good brass, there are solutions.

I've never had this done, but the traditional way to "fix" the pre-64 is to drill a gas relief hole in the left side receiver ring and weld or silver solder a specially shaped flange to the bolt shroud.

I have to think that these fixes--if you absolutely had to have them--would cost a hell of a lot less than fixing up a military Mauser.

I just wonder why everyone is so hung up on cost What we are talking about is a custom rifle here isn't it? They aren't cheap, nor should they be. But, If you wanted to save even more money, just start out with a Classic and not a pre-64 action. No, gas handling problems to worry about at all. Of course you could even save more cash by just buying a rifle at the store and using it .

I guess if you just want to stick an aftermarket barrel on and call it a custom, a Mauser isn't a good choice. But if we are talking about a real custom rifle, what's an extra 3-4 hundred dollars to get the Mauser action and get it set up like you want it. If a Mauser is what you want.

Both actions would be suitible for a fine custom, but considering the cost of a custom rifle, I wouldn't let a few hundred dollor's stop me from using the action I wanted.

Terry

quote:

...weld or silver solder a specially shaped flange to the bolt shroud.

Or just buy a new one from ace metalsmith Ed LaPour. His M70 striker shroud has gas flanges on both sides, and a more elegant arrangement for the shroud lock retainer, too.

Ed LaPour, I have heard of him. Is he a guild member? How can I get in touch with him?

quote:

Originally posted by meplat:

quote:

...weld or silver solder a specially shaped flange to the bolt shroud.

Or just buy a new one from ace metalsmith Ed LaPour. His M70 striker shroud has gas flanges on both sides, and a more elegant arrangement for the shroud lock retainer, too.

>>How can I get in touch with him?

Edward LaPour Gunsmithing
908 Hayword Ave
Bremerton WA 98310
360 479 4966
Fax 360 479 3902

Thanks meplat for the information. Have you seen or had the modification done to a model 70?

IMO a pre64 M70 is slicker in working the bolt than any Mauser 98 of any kind. That should count for something. Ditto for a double heat treat 1903 Springfield of course, but we no longer consider them for fancy custom rifle work for other rearson. I have always thought that the reason the 1903 was so smooth, and also the 54 and 70 which were its collateral descendants, was that the US Ordnance guys remembered the easy working of the Krag and tried to keep as much of that characteristic as they could in the new 1903. The pre64 was the eventual beneficiary.