I know all the craze is light weight rifles. I dearly love to cary my Rem model. 7 SS But, I find it too light for good off hand shooting. Seems I have better luck with my old BAR which is heavy but settles on the forehand quite well for such shooting when necessary,while the model 7 waves around like a leaf in the wind making it difficult to hit anything such as a deer.
Also the late Jack O'connor once said if you can't see a deer well enough to shoot it with a 4 X scope its too far to shoot at. What do you think, I just might go back to a fixed 4 x to lighten the load on my Bar.

Look at the old Stevens Favorite single shot .22. I had one as a kid, it was as light as any rifle can be, but it was very easy to shoot. I think as an adult, a rifle can be too light, but that not usually a problem. I have an UL Ruger 77 in .308 that kicks more than you might imagine, but it's not really what you would call uncomfortable. I like it to carry and it's easy to hit with.

From your response I take it that you don't use a sling to steady your rifle. I wind my arm around the sling, which is a very quick motion, so the rifle is snug and tight when I'm in a shooting position. Note that this is NOT the traditional military method that requires a special sling and putting one's arm into a loop that tightens around the bicep. That requires a special sling and is not very quick unless practiced extensively.

This is a great method for steadying a rifle for off-hand shooting. A sling helps steady a light rifle and makes a heavier rifle more tolerable to hold off-hand.

Roger

I personally like an 8 to 8 1/2 lb rifle for general use. It seems to hang better off hand and
isn't too burdensome. Steadiness is noticeably better in my subjective opinion.
When I used to hunt in East Texas river bottom thickets, I used a lighter rifle because you had about 1/2 a second to make an always less than 50 yard shot on moving deer.
Your mileage may vary.

I have had the same experience. I have had a Rem model 600 in 222 that I have had since 1968. At that time I was very good with it, now after using a heavy barreled 22/250 and 220 swift i find the 222 hard to hold on target. I am waving all around. It may be mental but I have the problem. I have friends that have put wiegts on the barrel to correct this. By the way I have a 4x
Baush and Lomb on my Bar in 308.

Hey Crock,I agree with Roger, a "Hasty Sling" works great to help steady the light rifles.

One other thing I do to help myself is to practice shooting Off-Hand at 100yds with a 22LR using the Hasty Sling. The 22LR I seem to use the most is a Marlin M880SS which is even lighter than my M7s. Doesn't take too long to get to where hitting a soda-pop can is all that difficult. I've noticed it does take a bit more time for the scope to settle down as I age though.

It may not affect you at all, but the amount of Caffine I have also affects my steadyness. I don't drink coffee, but I do drink Iced Tea. Seems to be somewhat of a balancing act to get the right amount in me. Either too little or too much and it is more difficult to hold steady.

The problem isn't so much the overall weight, but the rifle's balance. Balance is a very personal thing, which is why a rifle can feel great to one person and horrible to another.

Balance configuration also depends on shooting style. It's easier to understand if we look at the shotgun sports. The grouse and woodcock hunter wants a quick handling shotgun that shoots where it is quickly pointed to. These guns are typically light and balanced "between the hands". The trap shooter and some waterfowl hunters want a steady swing through. These guns are balanced slightly more forward (with typically longer barrels). Either style will work for the other type of shooting, but not without compromise.

These same characteristics can be found in rifle hunting. The thick cover, woods hunter typically takes quick, point and shoot shots. The rifleman in the open areas usually has time to take a more calculated aimed shot. The two shooting styles require the difference balance.

Just because a rifle feels "right" in the gunshop or trophy room, doesn't mean it will feel "right" at the time of the hunt. Try to determine what type of hunting (or more importantly, "shooting style") you primarily do, and match the rifle "balance" to it.

Enjoy the search!
John

In my rifles I don't really look for light. I look for compact and portable. I use an Encore for most of my hunting and prefer short, stiff barrels, my 16 1/4" 250 Sav barrel has a muzzle diameter of .850". My 20" .350 Rem Mag has the same muzzle dia. To me this offers a good compromise of weight and handiness while sill putting the weight between your hands to help hold steady while shooting offhand. And, surely those stiff barrels contribute to the bench accuracy of these guns.
Sean

When I was young it didn"t matter what rifle I used, I could shoot very good off hand in the brush. Now that I'm wobbly a weight forward rifle is easier to get on target. A sling is of no help hitting a jumping deer in the brush but very good when shooting in the sit position, at least for me. The best off hand rifle for me was the model 1oo winchester.But, it had problems. I just bought an old 1969 BAR that feels pretty good with the irons. But, I need a scope for these old eyes. So any thoughts on a light 4x scope for the old BAR ?
Almost forgot, where I hunt it is a mixture of open fields and thick brushy draws or small patches of timber. So sime times you have to go long when in a stand or shoot fast in the timber or when walking. I'm heading to North Mo. in the morning for opening day of rifle season.It will be a pumpkin patch with deer streaking across fields or snecking through draws and timber. Thanks for the replys.

Yur durn tootin! as Gabby Hayes used to say, a rifle can be too light to shoot well offhand. In the days or yore, light rifles were stickly for the high country sheep hunter, who climbed the scree and used a rest when it finally came time to shoot. Somewhere the shooting public went to seed on light rifles. I have never found a barrel contour (that you can still carry)for offhand shooting at game better than the old 03 Springfield of 24" that runs around .600 at the muzzle. I want enough steel out there to hang steady, but no so much that I need a wheel barrow to get it around. Works for me!

Hell yes. The model 7 is great as long as you want to carry a rifle instead of shoot game. You need muzzle weight to shoot offhand. A light rifle could be built this way, but most aren't, just chop off the barrel, etc.

First of all off hand shots should not be taken at game unless the game is very close and it's running or about to run. In this case a light rifle is as good or better than a heavy one as all one has to do is to force the sights to the center as the trigger releases the firing pin.

If the game is not that aware then drop down to a better position.

Of course target shooters use heavy rifles on stationary targets but many of my off hand targets on game are when they are moving.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Savage 99:
[QB]"First of all off hand shots should not be taken at game unless the game is very close and it's running or about to run."
"In this case a light rifle is as good or better than a heavy one"
This is right on the money.In my younger days I hunted with 2 sporterized Carcano carbines with large diameter peep sights. One I fitted with a mod. 95 mag and floor plate and it weighed in at 6 Lbs. the other I removed the mag. and made it into a single shot and rechambered it to 6.5x55. It weighed in at close to 5 lbs. Currently I have an 8m/mx57 and a 7m/mx57 scout type rifles that weigh a little over 7 pounds because of scope and mounts. All these have been excellent of hand shooters when I had to use it that way. The only reason I ever took off hand shots at game was because I had to. When I can I always use some kind of rest. Roger

Perhaps an ankle weight on your left elbow would help..

yeppers... and most are weighted wrong, for off hand shooting, anyway.

I disagree with savage 99, in this case... game can be taken from any reasonable range that the hunter PRACTICES shooting at... If he means close as in 100 yards and in... i guess i agree, as 150 is just about my limit WITH a rest, but i dont want to start the whole long range shooting thing again.

most guns are weighted either back or barely forward, for off hand, this succks. pick up a "kentucky" rifle, or a competitive blackpowder gun, that just "hangs" there... it might only weight 9 or 9.5, but it HANGS there....

try that with a model 7, or a browning a bolt...

jeffe

I guess I can kind of agree with Savage 99 that offhand shots shouldn't be taken unless you have to. Unfortunately, a big percentage of game requires offhand shooting, except in the western USA. Here in Mo. tall ground cover makes most sitting positions impossible, as does fast moving whitetails. It is a different type of shooting, and I kill probably 50 percent from the offhand position. I have some friends from Wyo. who come back and hunt with us and they're not used to the fast shooting, last year we ran a buck by one of them at 85-90 yards, he didn't fire a shot said he was waiting for him to stop. Of course he's still waiting for the buck to stop!

Muzzle weight can help to steady a rifle but it isnt the bottom line. Im a much better shot with my tupperware stocked 22 then I am with my 8X57 which Im guessing weighs about 2 lbs more than the 22.

The reason is the 8mm needs a better stock (ie; it doesnt fit me.) A guy can teach himself to relax into a light rifle with just a little practice, but it needs to be a well ballanced light rifle..

[ 11-14-2003, 05:30: Message edited by: Wstrnhuntr ]

I believe barrel weight helps ALOT with steadiness. Pick up a Flintlock long rifle sometime, steady as a rock!

I find a heavier rifle easier to shoot off hand. But again just as one can be to light one can be to heavy. I shot two deer off hand this year at 125 yards and 143 yards. Rifle was a 8.5 lb. 788 one of the best rifles for me to shoot running game with is a sav 99 in 300sav 24 in barrel at close to 9 lbs. I have made some great running shoots with that.

The question was"Can a rifle be to light for accurate off hand shooting?" For some the lower weight limit is a lot less than for others.

Some people can "LEARN" to use tools handly some people can not. The learning is the key . Some how it looks like the thread refocused on what makes a better off hand rifle.

Has anyone ever tried to pull a heavey long barreled rifle out of a saddle scabard?