I recently purchased a Savage 12 FVSS in .223. The gun is ok, besides the sorry excuse for a stock and the scope mount holes way off (I'll be getting this fixed I hope). Anyway...on to the question:

I've been firing factory Winchester and Federal Match ammo in it and they work fine. A friend wanted to shoot it, but wanted to use his handloads in it. These were loaded from fire-formed brass out of his Sako. The rounds wouldn't fire. The primers didn't even have a mark on them. Why is this? I figure it has something to do with the headspacing, but I don't really understand it.

Can anyone explain why this happened and which gun is the worse off? I would just like to have it looked at if its my gun.

Thanks.

Did the bolt fully close?
Close hard?
Did the bolt close with no effort, like the chamber was empty?
How did it close on the factory ammo? (compare the feel of factory to handloaded)

If he's done much reloading, he should know that ammo fireformed in one chamber rarely fit's into a different chamber.

It sounds as if your friend's reloads have been sized excessively, so that the shoulder is pushed back far enough that it does not bear sufficiently against the chamber's shoulder, and the cartridge base is therefore too far off of the bolt face for the firing pin to sufficiently indent the primer.

This doesn't mean that your Savage has "excessive headspace" (although a rather loose chamber in American factory rifles is common). It simply means that the sizing die/shellholder head combination that your friend uses CAN be set to make ammunition too short for your chamber. Sakos usually have a slighly tighter chamber than American makes, so the "oversqueezed" load still fire in his gun. BTW -- he is likely sizing his load far more than is advisable for good case life.

The bolt closed like there was nothing there, with very little effort. It wasn't a huge difference over the factory loads, but it was definitely not hard to close.

The friend doesn't actually load his own...my other friend loads his for him, so the friend in question really doesn't know anything about it.

I expected the round to fit tighter than the factory ammo not loser. As far as I know, his handloads are loaded with the Lee collet dies, so the only sizing was done when they were first shot. When you say he is over sizing...can this be possible if he's not full length sizing each time?

I kind of figured that his case was shorter (from shoulder to case head), but I didn't think it would be enough shorter to not actually fire.

Thanks!

If the information you have about the loads being done with a Lee Collet die is accurate, then you have a real puzzler. But as the failure of these rounds to fire illustrates, it is hardly wise to use reloaded ammunition of third-hand origin with which you can hardly be sure of its contents or performance.

One would assume that the ammunition, no matter what chamber it was first fired in, would have started out no shorter than any other factory ammunition, including that which worked in your Savage. If it were processed in a Lee Collet die, then theorectically there would have been no way for it to get shorter than in it's pre-fired (factory) state; and it should be slighly longer since the Sako's chamber can't be shorter than the brass which fit in it.

All of which causes me to question whether the brass has, unknown to you or your friend, been full length sized and made shorter than the factory ammunition which works in your Savage.

The answer, I think, lies in determining the history of the reloaded cartridges.

This has nothing to do with brand of dies or number of times brass resized.

Your friends chamber may well be on the muinimum side. Your other friend may have a die and/or shell holder 0.001 or so short. Your chamber may well be on the long side of SAAMI specs.

Count your blessing that the mismatch in headspace was enough to prevent firing. You could have gotten a shower of gas and brass

Solution:

adjust your dies to match your chamber.

Wally

If the firing pin didn't even dent the primer are you sure your friend was not trying to fire .222 ammunition in your .223? Whatever the case, letting someone shoot 3rd hand reloads in your rifle is a BAD idea.

I suspect the case shoulders were set back by the sizing die. QUITE A LOT, IF THERE'S NO MARK ON THE PRIMER!

Not having a mark on the primer would be a bit of a concern since the firing pin protrusion will be anywhere between .055 to .065 on the Savage. For that much of a miss match, you should be able to lay the cartridges side by side and see the difference.

Malm

And people wonder why I tell them I don`t load for anyone but myself, or wonder why I don`t want those old shells they loaded for that `06 they sold last year that are just laying around their shelve.

This time it was a misfire, the next could cost you body parts! I make enough mistakes on my own without risking others possible errors.

DON`T USE ANY AMMO YOU DIDN`T BUY OR LOAD YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!

I checked with the loader of the rounds...they were done with a collet die and not full length sized.

These rounds are definitely .223 and not .222 rounds. The bullet seating depth wouldn't have changed anything would it?

I'm going to see if I can get some of the rounds that didn't fire to analyze, but I still don't really understand how they couldn't fire.

If anything, wouldn't the rounds (once shot and neck sized only) from his rifle be longer than factory ammo? His gun couldn't actually shorten factory brass could it? I'm not sure if the brass was trimmed before loading, but I'm going to try and find out.

This has opened my eyes to using only factory ammo or ammo I load myself. I'm learning a good bit about reloading and guns from this...Thanks!

It is nearly impossible to size a round to the point where the primer will have no marks at all. I would suspect those 223's were sized in a 222 die.. The result is beyond any regular headspace problem. The other alternative would be the barrel nut on your rifle being so loose that it allowed the barrel to unscrew!!

IMHO it is an unsafe...if not downright dangerous thing to shoot reloads that you personally did not assemble. I have seen it time after time...someone hands someone a box or a few rounds and says "I loaded these last night...see if they shoot good for you" Famous last words.
I have seen several guns turn up in gunsmith shops with a severe case of " my buddy loaded some ammo for me and I dont know what happened." Some can be salvaged....most are good for tent stakes afterwards.

good luck and good shooting

The whole thing sent shivers down my spine. I'm with the rest. Never shoot strange handloads, or take strange women home. Both can get you in BIG trouble!