The Weaver base screws on my 8mm-06 came loose yesterday and I've decided to Locktite them. Planning to use the blue Locktite but would like some opinions about other products. Anyone tried finger nail polish?
All comments welcome.
Chief.

Chief, I usually use the the blue or even red, but have actually used regular old super-glue. It worked well, and on the few ocassions I had to disassemble it, it wasn't too bad at all.

Good Luck--Don

A few years ago Premier Reticle and Leupold did test on this and their findings showed that light machine oil applied to the cleaned threads worked the best. The tests involved all sizes of scopes, bases, and calibers.

First clean the threads really well with alcohol apply a light coating of machine oil and torque to the proper amount.

Why not just use a proven product like Blue Loctite? Do it once and forget about it.

Rick, you have got to get off the pipe! Machine oil worked best for what? Removing the screw later???---Just kidding but..

Is that right?--machine oil actually helped the scope mounts stay seated the best? That is amazing to me---I know you know the shiznit, but damn that is a surprise--


Hell Chief, just oil em up I guess---I'm gonna stick with blue loctite--pun intended.

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
Rick, you have got to get off the pipe! Machine oil worked best for what? Removing the screw later???---Just kidding but..

Is that right?--machine oil actually helped the scope mounts stay seated the best? That is amazing to me---I know you know the shiznit, but damn that is a surprise--


Hell Chief, just oil em up I guess---I'm gonna stick with blue loctite--pun intended.

If you don’t believe me, call either Leupold or Premier and ask them. And also ask them what they think of using loctite on scope bases.

You might also visit Brownells web site and look up the article in Web Kinks on torquing screws because you obviously could use the info.

I've read the Leupold statement on clean and oiled screws and don't disagree with them. I still use red Locktight. If you want to realy lock them in, paint them with iodine and screw them in. Removal is easy, start with a drill.

Dave

What is the proper torque?

Rick, as I said, I know you know--that was simply amazing info to me. Just poking a little fun in the first sentence. As to torquing screws on scope bases, I do probably need to look at that, I haven't been real diligent about that, I just screw them in until I feel that they are 'snug'---I did buy a torque wrench per your recommendation for my action screws though.....

I have in fact used the blue loctite and super glue on a few rifles where I never intend to remove the bases--or rings or scope for that matter, several gunsmiths recommended that.

As another ? Rick, I'm pretty sure you'd know, what does the military do in regard to scope bases etc.?

PS--Rick I DO believe what you say--what is the skinny on loctite on bases??

Regards---Don

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
Rick, as I said, I know you know--that was simply amazing info to me. Just poking a little fun in the first sentence. As to torquing screws on scope bases, I do probably need to look at that, I haven't been real diligent about that, I just screw them in until I feel that they are 'snug'---I did buy a torque wrench per your recommendation for my action screws though.....

I have in fact used the blue loctite and super glue on a few rifles where I never intend to remove the bases--or rings or scope for that matter, several gunsmiths recommended that.

As another ? Rick, I'm pretty sure you'd know, what does the military do in regard to scope bases etc.?

PS--Rick I DO believe what you say--what is the skinny on loctite on bases??

Regards---Don

For a screw to be properly torqued you are literally stretching the screw to a bit over 50% of what it takes to cause failure of the screw. I have two flat steel plates that I drilled and tapped a bunch of 6x48 and 8x40 holes in. I take some of the screws I will be using and I torque them down with my torque wrench until they snap off. Then I average the readings out and cut it in half for the amount of torque I will use for that size and batch of screws.

Loctite on a threaded joint will give you false torque readings, and even give you a false “feel†when you tighten the screws. The torque you read on the wrench, or the tightness you feel, may not be what you actually have when the loctite hardens...and there is no way to check it without breaking the loctite loose.

The light machine oil, and perfectly clean threads, gives you far more accurate “feel†and/or torque readings, and if you torque them properly they will stay tight.

The other problem with loctite is when you remove screws and then install them again. It’s a bitch getting all the old stuff out of the inner threads and you can end up with a threaded hole full of little bits and pieces of dried loctite.

I learned this from Dick Thomas owner of Premier Reticles (now deceased), and Dick knew more about scopes and mounting them than just about anyone I have ever talked to.

I've tightened quite a few screws and bolts dressed with various kinds of Loctite in the past 20-odd years while requilding manual transmissions , transaxles and rear axles....
S0 I can safely say that Loctite doesn't cure like Cyanoacrylate(super-glue) does, it takes some time and as long as the pieces are moving it won't cure...

So it giving a "false torque reading" is simply the purest "night soil" of a male bovine.
particularly in the torque ranges we are discussing here.

I tighten the current leupold T-15head base screws to 24in/lb and at that torque level I consider them backing off to be especially unlikely

Yeah you learn things from "experienced old timers" but sometimes it's bullshit.
Sometimes they are knowingly bullshitting you
and forget to tell you later and other times they were bullshitted and simply never learned differently.

The best way is to start with de-oiled clean "dry" threads.

Alcohol WILL NOT accomplish this any more that a shot of whiskey will cure a snake bite.

you need to use a REAL degreasing solvent.
Acetone DOES work. Automotive brake parts cleaner works even better.

"PRE-install the base with atleast two screws
tighten "snug", then REMOVE one of these screws apply a sparing ammount of loctite to that one screw, tighten and torque in a single operation.
then remove the other screw and repeat the proceedure.

"blue" (aka 242) usually works ("red" is asking for trouble) the specific stuff I use is intended for locking set screws in electrical connectors. It's call "Assure" I believe the number is 226. It's clear blue (not the milky blue) of the usual 242 blue which also acts as a sealant in automotive applications.

I actually own an inch/lb torque wrench
that reads accurately down to 5in/lb.
(It's a bend-beam type with a Max scale
of is 60in/lb)

I also have 1/4" hex drive (Non-Magnetic, they have a screw collet to remove play) torque screwdrivers in both in/lb (0-30in/lb)
and in/oz (0-100in/oz) torque ranges.

Leupold torx base screws tightened to 24in/lb
are VERY unlikely to back out. BUT!.... for people who are in my opinion quite reasonable in their concern for snapping off a sight base screw in a receiver because they are afraid of over-tightening it and can't justify spending $150 (or more) on a highly specialized torque wrench... then somewhat less torque and a dab of loctite works just as well.

BTW, if you need to get a loctited screw out to remove a scope base and you want to make things easier? strip the plastic, wood and glass off of the barreled action and stick it in a 400degree oven for 45minutes and the screws will come right out. (350 will work but it takes a LOT longer to kill the bond)

all things considered if given a choice between fighting to get it out later and having it back out when I don't expect it (somewhere in the field or even at the range)to I'll choose the fight later.

when I put a Leupold scope mount base on a receiver I don't really expect to ever need to remove it, but if I have to I also know how.

AllanD

I agree with Rick, light machine oil, with well cleaned screws and scres holes, will do as well as anything. Leupold does not recomend a specific torgue reading for their bases or rings. They just say tight ro something along those lines.

I mounted scopes for a sporting goods store for a while. Though store proceedure was to use blue locktite at 35 inch pounds torgue. I really think that oil and 25 inch pounds is much less likely to strip out a hole or twist off a screw head. Be sure to thouroughly clean out the hole first. By the way 35 inch pounds only applies to steel actions..be much less agressive with aluminum.

Regarding removing a screw with locktite. There is no need to put the rifle in an oven...just apply a soldering iron to the head of the screw for a short time. That should break down the locktite. Use denatured alchohol to clean the screws and holes as well as removing the residue of old locktite.

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:

BTW, if you need to get a loctited screw out to remove a scope base and you want to make things easier? strip the plastic, wood and glass off of the barreled action and stick it in a 400degree oven for 45minutes and the screws will come right out. (350 will work but it takes a LOT longer to kill the bond)

Quicker yet, remove the wood, plastic and glass and warm the area around the screw with a propane torch. Less than a minute!

The guys at Leupold will normally tell you to use the provided little “L†shaped wrench and tighten the screw with the long leg until it starts to hurt your fingers.

Just for the hell of it I tested how much it takes to “hurts my fingers“ and it came out to right around 20 inch/pounds.

If you must use Loctite, I recommend the 222 varient which is formulated for threads .250 and smaller--at least that's what I was told by the counter guys at our local bolt emporium and verified through Loctite specs.

John

Just my opinion, but loctite and gun screws should find other dance partners.

The minuses of loctite for these applications far outweigh any perceived pulses.

What about bedding scope bases if you don't intend to take them off? Not to get off topic but if you're going to glue the screws in, why not stick the whole thing on?

quote:

Originally posted by billhilly66:
What about bedding scope bases if you don't intend to take them off? Not to get off topic but if you're going to glue the screws in, why not stick the whole thing on?

I bed scope bases, but I use release agent on the receiver so the bedding just becomes a part of the base, and they can still be removed. The purpose (for me) is to get a perfect mating of the base to the receiver not to make the base a permanent part of the rifle.

I also bed scope rings to the scope they will be used with, but just like with the bases I don’t “glue†them to the scope tube.

Properly fitted bases that are properly screwed to the receiver ain’t going nowhere...or at least that has been my experience.

I haven't had any come off either. I just thought if you were going as far as to glue the screws........

quote:

Originally posted by billhilly66:
I haven't had any come off either. I just thought if you were going as far as to glue the screws........

I know people who have permanently attached bases to their receivers, but it is not something I would consider doing unless the bases were some cutom made types that would enhance the overall value of the rifle.

This is a very interesting discussion to me.

I've always used clear nail polish when I'm doing it. But, request my gunsmith to use loktite and leave it up to him which one to use. I've had very little experience with it and could never justify the cost no more than I'd use it, so never bought any.

For automotive work Allen D. IF any bolt is ever intended to be taken out at a later date and not inside an engine, trans, or diff. I always use Never Sieze.

Works great on the adjustment screws on brakes. One time I locked up a single rear wheel from a rusted up adjuster and spun out at 75 mph. Sure wasn't any fun for me, nor the wife either one. Just glad the median was smooth and not off a pass somewhere.

Now then, OT. What's the best way to remove a glued on walnut stock from a jacked up glass bedding job?? Near as I can tell, it's a permantley glued one piece rifle now. Yeah, my first bedding job. Did the whole action at once instead of a little at a time.

George

quote:

Originally posted by georgeld:
Now then, OT. What's the best way to remove a glued on walnut stock from a jacked up glass bedding job?? Near as I can tell, it's a permantley glued one piece rifle now. Yeah, my first bedding job. Did the whole action at once instead of a little at a time.

George

Well, first make sure the guard screws are removed, and then you can put the barreled action and stock in the freezer over night. In the morning, flip the works upside down, and while gripping the forend with your fingertips, take a lead hammer or rubber mallet and stike the barrel as close as you can to the forarm tip without actually hitting it, and see if that doesn't set things in motion. It may take several sharp raps to determine whether it will come loose or not. Don't be shy. If you don't have a good rubber mallet, wrap a couple of layers of rags around the barrel and strike that with a regular hammer. At this point what have you got to lose???

We now return the discussion back to the use of loctite...

Chief, FWIW, I use the blue stuff on those customers guns who request it. But on my personal guns, since they are not subjected to road vibrations, I generally don't use anything.

Well, I've been in the embarresing situation where a rear scope base did come loose even though I had torqued it 'enough'. It turns out that the base to action fit was a bit sloppy (thank you USRAC), and after bedding the base with Devcon it holds much better. I do now use blue medium strength Loctite now for insurance. Since I don't plan to take them off except in an extreme situation, there is none of the downside that others have called out...all of which are easily fixed by chasing the threads with a tap.

Allan DeGroot-

quote:

I also have 1/4" hex drive (Non-Magnetic, they have a screw collet to remove play) torque screwdrivers in both in/lb (0-30in/lb)
and in/oz (0-100in/oz) torque ranges.

May I ask the manufacturer's name of these torque drivers?

thanks.

JB Weld on the screws, under the bases, works like a charm.

quote:

Originally posted by tin can:
Allan DeGroot-

quote:

I also have 1/4" hex drive (Non-Magnetic, they have a screw collet to remove play) torque screwdrivers in both in/lb (0-30in/lb)
and in/oz (0-100in/oz) torque ranges.

May I ask the manufacturer's name of these torque drivers?

thanks.

The question wasn't directed to me, but I use a Utica torque screw driver that is adjustable up to 35 inch pounds. Do a web search and you should be able to find some. They also show up on e-bay from time to time.

Just a suggestion...I own two Seekonk brand inch/pound torque wrenches, one is a screw driver style (up to 30 inch/pounds)and one is the rachet wrench style (up to 75 inch/pounds). For the smaller scope base/ring screws the screw driver style is much handier to use