I've seen a few posts on the forums where someone suggested replacing I believe a remington extractor or maybe bolt-face with that of the sako. Is this really possible and what would be the reason for changing them out? Also, what other brand extractors/bolt-faces are interchangeable with that of the sako? Thanks for any help.

The Sako extractor is large and has a positive grab on the brass case.
Frankly, I never had a problem with a standard Remington extractor. The gunsmiths like to replace them, in part, because it is a quick and easy money maker. The guys who oppose the installation of Sako extractors do so because it is necessary to mill away alot of the bolt face/rim in order to fit it. Thus, potentially weakening the bolt.
I have Sako extractors on my Sakos and some that have been installed by a gunsmith. The factory Sako extractor is much cleaner and smoother working.
If it ain't broke - don't fix it>
Just my 2 cents.
VH

Yes, it is possible, and can be done to the 721 and 722, in addition to the 700. The cost is usually in the $125 range. The process requires some machining of front-most inch or so of the bolt.

The sako-style extractor is supposed to be superior (that is, more reliable) to the clip-style extractor of the 721, 722, and the 700 (an improved version of the 721 and 722 style clip extractors).

However, I've owned many 721s, 722s, and 700s, and I've had to hammer the bolts open any number of times over the years, and these "inferior" extractors never failed to pull out a tight case. If you keep to normal pressure limits and keep the chamber clean (a rough and dirty chamber are the main causes of extraction problems) you will probably never have any trouble with the standard clip-style extractor.

9.3

This is generally NOT considered to be a good idea. Sako-type extractor conversions on Remington 700s weaken the structural integrity of the bolt, and a great many of these conversions are LESS reliable than the original Remington extractor system. True fact.

In my experience, and I've owned about ninety Remington 700s over the last thirty years - all the way from stock ADLs to full-blown custom jobs - the extractor system on Remington 700s is very, very reliable just as it is. Actually, the more pressure that's exerted against it, the stronger it holds! Yes, you can wind up with a bad, out-of-spec Model 700 extractor that might need to be replaced (very rare), but in a Sako-type conversion is completedly unnecessary and not the way to proceed.

I've had feeding problems with various Model 700s, etc., but NEVER have I had an extraction problem in all these years with this system.

AD

"The sako-style extractor is supposed to be superior (that is, more reliable)"

Soooo, why not go the whole hog and buy the Sako rifle?

Or is the Remmy the centrefire equivalent of the Ruger 10/22? A fine gun as semi-autos go, but not before you've replaced barrel, action, trigger and stock?

Well, in my case the reason I wouldn't go whole hog and buy a Sako is simple...

Remingtons have better triggers, are easier to make really, really accurate, and feed & extract just as well. They also cost less in my part of the world, and parts for specialty conversions (if I should want one) are much more available.

I have owned probably 15 Sakos over the last 50 years, and still have 4, but I have probably 30 or so Remingtons at the moment, every one of which works beautifully for its purpose.

Whatever rows your boat...Remingtons propel my skiff rather well.

AC

So when the Sako extractor goes SPROING into the bush where you gonna find a replacement? A replacement Remington extractor goes in with your fingers. And if you just want to spend money on a needless modification why not get a Weatherby Vanguard extractor?

One of the benefits of using the sako extractor is the fact that it allows the bolt to go further into the barrel, reducing the case exposure from .140" to .100"-.105". Less case exposure is better in terms of handling pressure, case rupture, and accuracy.

But, with all things that are good, some of them are bad too. Take for instance what happens when the load you're using is a little too hot for one reason or another. If the extractor blows off of the bolt body, it's got a direct line of sight to your face. This is not the case with the Remington extractor.

Just food for thought.

I had one remington extractor fail a few years ago and have since had sako extractors installed in all of my 700 action rifles.To date they have given me no problems at all.

I have seen Rem 721's and 722's with bad or worn extractors. It would take 3 or more times to get the round out of the chamber. The SAKO extractor is a good positive remedy. I have seen SAKO extractors put in wrong also. That creats a bigger problem. There is more than one way to put the SAKO extractor in. I feel that the best way is to remove the old extractor retaining lip, and solder a 4140 CM steel bushing in place. Then recut the bolt face and id to be true with the axis of the bolt body. I don't think this weakens the bolt since I only bore the bolt to the clean-up dia of the original extractor groove. Be sure not to heat the bolt head too much since the lugs are vulnerable to heat as is the soldered on bolt head itself. I use low temp stuff. One problem with the SAKO extractor on a Rem 700 is that the ejector is in the wrong place which makes the brass eject too high hitting the scope. It works, but is not perfect. It you could fill and re-drill the ejector hole 10 degrees off or so, the problem may be avoided.
The 700 extractors are a little better than the older 721/722 ones.

Last word, don't do it unless you need to.

I've been changing Remington extractors ever since I started building 6PPCs (around 1979). I have found the Sako to be a good conversion for the most part. My favorite extractor to retrofit to a remington was the extractor for the BSA CF2 action. It required the removal of less material and was an easier setup. This extractor is no longer available though. Regards, Bill.

The only thing I might ask is, if your life depended on the extractor removing the case and getting another rd chambered, in the case of a charging bear, which design would you bet your life on working? I'd say the Sako in a heartbeat. Forget the possitive feed action comments, that's not my point at all. I'm just simply saying, how much do you "really" believe in your Remington extractor...

I've seen 3 break on 700's in my life, never have seen a Sako fail. The Remington design is safer with a case rupture no doubt. To each his own. Just my 2 cents

Over the years I've installed M-16 extractors as well as the 1500 series Howa extractors to Remington bolts. All work extremely well when done correctly.

I've not seen one instance where a failure caused a Sako style extractor to fly out of the bolt. If you actually take a minute and look at the relationship of the Sako style extractor, the bolt nose and how they fit inside the bolt nose recess of the barrel, then you would see that there is not much out of the ordinary to worry about with regards to the issue of safety.

Although I must be truthful in that I rarely see Remington factory extractors fail, I consider the factory extractor to be the Achilles heel of the Remington rifle. I usually recommend the use of these extractors when opening the bolt face to a magnum caliber, or for use on Dangerous Game Rifles, where an extractor failure would not be a pleasant proposition.

Good luck,

Malm

One question: if a Sako extractor fails, what are you supposed to replace all you Sako extractors with?

One comment: if I had to depend on my rifle feeding and extracting for my life, I'd buy a Ruger 77 MKII, or a Mauser.

Hear is something the original "expert" forgot think about when he addressed the issue of "structural integrity." If you really think that safety has been compromised by installing the Sako extractor, you obviously have never taken a stock Remington extractor out of the bolt and looked at what is left. By adding a bushing of 4140 steel to the bolt and then machining it to a close fit to the cartridge rim, it solves three problems to the original bolt. One, it aligns the case more closely with the bore/chamber when the action is trued; two, it makes the nose of the bolt stronger, more able to handle stiff prssure loads and finally, three, when done correctly and with a new barrel installation, it allows the cartridge to seat more deeply into the chamber. This was mentioned by someone previously and is a valid point. Remington has duped a number of folks with their contention that "...three rings of steel..." offer more protection. I have nothing against the Remingtons, I work on them all the time. Fact is, I had a 700 in the shop the other day with a broken extractor. Try to find one today, a reveted in one. Damn near impossible and at an outrageous price, somewhere near $30 or more for the extractor and rivet, labor extra. The originals do fail at the most inopportune time.

[ 10-15-2003, 18:52: Message edited by: Jim Kobe ]

If extraction is an issue, stick with 70s, 98s, and 77s. Now don't get me wrong, I like 700s but must confess that their extractors are far from perfect. Of the seven Model 700s that I own (5 of which were new), 2 had to go back to the factory because of the extractor (7 STW and .300 Ultra Mag). One they fixed by polishing the chamber, but the other still gave me headaches....as a result, I installed a Sako extractor and it now functions beautifully.

Lee Martin
www.singleactions.com

just my 2 cents but a sako extractor left a gouge on my cheek when it came out of the rifle when i fired it. i am left handed and shoot a right handed action. since then no more sako extractors. i seen the howas done they look like a good way to go. never had a reming ton fail me, 5 barrels on same 700 action in 20 years time. few thousand rounds thru each barrel. the gunsmith told me the sako was the way to go, i think not.........

300stw,

That is the no no when putting one on, a lefty on a right bolt has his face is on the wrong side, but it's also on the same side as the gas vent too. Glad you're OK!

What happened that it came apart?

The Remington 700 bolt system features a recessed bolt nose that is, fundamentally, an uninterrupted ring of steel. An uninterrupted ring of steel is much, much stronger than an interrupted ring, which is what you end up with when you alter the Remington bolt nose to accomodate a Sako-type extractor, and this is why the the strength and integrity of the original design is indeed compromised when you alter it in this manner. This is just a plain and simple fact of engineering, and we used to run lab tests in college that served to demonstrate this principle in a most graphic and convincing manner.

AD

It may weaken the bolt head, but in no way makes the gun unsafe......you don't hear people talk about downloading a round when fired out of a Model 70 because it has a claw extractor. The simple fact is that if properly installed on a Remington bolt, the Savage extractor can be used for any modern round.

Lee Martin
www.singleactions.com

Lee, those are different breech designs altogether. The Remington bolt nose extends well beyond the front terminus of the locking lugs, unlike the Model 70, Savage, or Mauser 98. None of the typical aftermarket modifications done to those actions involve a compromise of the fundamental breeching system, unlike the Sako conversion on Remingtons.

I wish I knew the issue, but several years ago, "Rifle" magazine presented a story about Sako-type extractor conversions for Remington 700s which is well-worth reading.

AD

Allen....thanks for the update. I'll look through my old issues of Rifle Magazine. Now I do agree that there are breech differences between the 70 and 700...and yes, a Sako conversion may weaken a Remington bolt head, but not to the degree that the gun becomes fundamentally unsound. I've converted a few over the years (most recently a .300 Ultra Mag) and have never found safety to be compromised.

Lee Martin
www.singleactions.com

I believe the recess diameter for the bolt nose in the 700 has to be relieved at the outer edge somewhat in the area the extractor rotates through, the same sweeping area as the bolt handle, which is about 1 O'clock to to 5 O'Clock on the 700. This allows the extractor to open past the bolt diameter to snap over the case head any where in that range of bolt rotation. How this relief it put in one area of the counterbore for the bolt nose I'm not sure, but this area would surely allow for the ring itself and at least the front part of the Sako style extractor to be unsupported, and in the event of high pressure entering this area, either one or both could yield or fail completely. There is an area there that could allow metal and gas to be released to the rear in the bolt raceway now, where there wasn't before.... Allen does have a point to consider here. What actually happens when a primer or case fails to seal? Well, gas takes the every way out it can, and if the extractor breaks into small enough pieces gas can carry it back in your face through this small relief too.

Don't shoot on the wrong side of the gun and in the event of a sudden release of gas to the rear you reduce the risk of being inflicted tremendously. Wearing shooting glasses might also help if you're concerned about your eyes.

Chalk me up to somone who has had one Remington extractor fail on my custom M700 match rifle. The extractor broke in the middle of the state HP championship match which left me sitting on a great 200 and 300 yard score but unbale to complete the rest of the event.
Now to be fair the gun was on its third barrel and had upwards of 15,000 rounds fired through it including some rapid fire events which I'm sure didn't do the extractor any good.
I've had it replaced with the Sako modification and it hasn't missed a lick since.
The rest of my Remington's have given good service with no problems though none have seen a tenth of the use my match rifle endures.
All rifles have weaknesses and strengths. I've probably witnessed 4 maybe 5 Remington 700 extractors break over my 20 years =/- of competing in HP rifle events. Mostly on well used rifles.