Any of you guys have/use a Horizontal in your shops? Do you feel they're as useful as a vertical or too specialized. I know they tend to be more rigid and I suppose you could use them to shape bridges and what not. Seen an old Cincinnati the other day for a pretty reasonable price... Not sure if I should jump or not.

Joe

A horizontal mill can be utilized for a lot of gun work. If you are experienced with a mill and dont mind concocting unusual set ups. Also you will have to aquire a lot of expensive tooling specific to that machine.

It would not be practical for a gun business. If your gun interest is strictly hobby then it could be useful. Bear in mind a big horizontal mill requires 3 phase power and takes up a lot of room.

Finally if you are near north Texas I will sell you one with lots of tooling and a rebuilt motor for a song.

Horizontals can be extremely useful for gunsmithing, or totally useless. Depends on the machine and what you hope to do with it.

Generally speaking you would be better off spending $1000-$2000 on a decent vertical. You'll have a quill and easier set ups. Tooling may or may not be readily available.

On the flip side a nice horizontal can be had for a couple bucks over scrap. When I bought my B&S I paid a premium for it. $1500 I think it was? Super nice shape, scrapings almost 90%, a few dings in the table, but NICE. Came with the vertical head attachment, dividing head, a small rotary table, and about a dozen tool holders. It's just a little guy though, 4400lbs. Quite a bit smaller than the 6000lb+ Kearney Trecker it replaced. I do the majority of my octagon barrel work on it, due to the greater travel in X than my Cinci Toolmaster (vertical) or my K&T 2D (vertical).

...

It's hard to beat a Bridgeport.

Dave

I was ready to pull the trigger on a van Norman some months back.. Wasn't quick enough. They're towards the top of my list. Affordable and versatile, especially if you get the over arm with the machine.

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My friend has a Luthy for sale. It is a Swiss machine and has the vertical head attachment. It also has a VFD to convert it to single phase with variable speed. It is a rare machine and very nice for a very reasonable price.
PM for more info.

quote:

Luthy

I have never run a Luthy, but I have run their brethren the Deckel. Good machines. Good at both finite work and hogging. Very versatile.

One thing most people (myself included) have a hard time getting used to is the position of the operator. A Deckel you stand to the right of the table, I believe the Maho/Luthy/etc you stand to the left?

Reasonable is of course subjective to market, but I think if I were anywhere close to Butch's friend I would be taking a good look at it. I know Iron is not as easy to come by in Texas as it is in Ohio.

In my shop, and all the other gunsmith shops I've been in, space is at a premium, so I wouldn't be willing to give up the space for a HM that I'd only use a few times a year. HMs can be great, and superior in some cases to a VM, but I wouldn't give up the space at any price.

If you go to this link you will see the actual pictures of Brad's Luthy. It was used by the UK website to describe the small Swiss machine. It has a small foot print.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/luthy/

Butch that is one neat machine. The bed can even be tip to do angles.

Yes sir and with the vertical head it can do more things.

That Luthy looks nice. The spindle
doesn't look like a NMTB taper though.
I have a similar setup in a no.4 K&T
Handy machine.

I ran one of these on and off for 5 years.
I never found many gun jobs that it would be good for since I am not much of a fan of octagon barrels. But you can run the hell out of them with very heavy feeds. A few times I ran a 1/8" wide saw into a 1/2" diameter bolt I was slotting - on rapid travel. The saw just pulled the bolt right out of the 5C collet fixture and bent it like a banana. The mill took it all in stride.

A Bridgeport, Tree or Excello is much more useful.