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I bought my first Rem. 700 the first year they were produced. I believe it was 1962. It had a 4 digit serial #. I still have it. I've had many, many since. I've NEVER had a trigger problem that I or someone else didn't cause through improper adjustment. But, I guess anything is possible. Those triggers are made by people. As a general rule I've found most people aren't perfect. knobmtn | |||
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I like the reset on the Remington trigger much better than the Rifle Basic.You keep shit from causing problems by either a tight fit (Reminigton trgger) or a very open design,(Winchester trigger).The Rifle Basic is much more open than the Remington with a tiny reset spring.A bad design for a rifle in bear country. | |||
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Quote:Quote: Oh good grief Hot Core! Are you going to try the "if it hasn't happened to you, then how can you be sure it happened' arguement? I wonder just how far you'll go in defense of that extraneous part? | |||
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Kingfisher, With a handle like that, you might like to see how I spent last week. I posted this in the Alaska section. Check it out here... BW's Herring Pictures No shooting for me this weekend, but I got to get busy as it's already bear season and they're starting to wake up.  | |||
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Quote: Oh good grief Hot Core! Are you going to try the "if it hasn't happened to you, then how can you be sure it happened' arguement? Hey BW, No, not at all. Since you claim you were not belkerized, I'm just curious about what caused you to decide(incorrectly) that there is some kind of a problem. Over the years I've had people bring all kinds of rifles to me with trigger problems. Here are just a couple of examples: The last one was a M98 Mauser which would allow the Striker to release when you moved the Safety from SAFE to FIRE. The Fire on Safety Release issue. It was an adjustment issue on an "Aftermarket Trigger". That certainly didn't mean there was a design problem with the Aftermarket Trigger. I was told it had worked properly for a good many years. Had an interesting experience with a pre-64 M70 Winchester which didn't want to fire. From the outside it looked pristine and well cared for. But, it looked like it had never been out of the stock. A piece of trash which may have been Pine Needles caused the problem there. In either situation, there was nothing at all wrong with the design. And with all the triggers I've ever handled, I've yet to see any kind of design problem. So, I'm of the opinion (with a considerable amount of hands-on experience coupled with a strong Engineering Degree to back it up) that there is nothing wrong with the Remington Factory Trigger design. Due to that, if you know something about them that I don't know, I'd like to hear about it. If you feel this is some kind of "trap" because you find it impossible to defend your position, that is not something I have control over. ... By the way, I see nothing at all wrong with "disliking" a specific feature in a trigger or a firearm which would cause a person to select a different model. For example, Pre-64 M70s are not my favorites. The reasons primarily have to do with accuracy. If you look at how the barrel is attached to the stock ahead of the receiver(integral barrel band with a screw going through the wooden stock), it is easy to understand how this arrangement can create shifting harmonics as the weather changes. I had quite a few and just decided they just don't meet my requirements. But, you will not see me "bashing" a pre-64 M70 just because I prefer something else. | |||
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Quote: Hot Core, Actually, if I used your guide lines to determine when someone was 'bashing' a product, then the mere fact you mentioned some Mauser/M70 faults above would make you guilty of 'bashing.'  Quote: Then why are you having such a hard time with the fact that some people don't care for the disconnector? I'm no gunsmith, nor an engineer, but I've been an aircraft mechanic (mostly helicopters) for over 20 years. I know when something is well engineered, and also when it's been 'over-engineered'. | |||
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Quote: Hey BW, I believe I answered your question just before you asked the above when I said: Quote: ... So basically you believe it is just "over-engineered". Well, I look at it and think about the way it works and come away impressed with the way he was able to get the extremely fast lock time. But, I can certainly understand how someone with a different background than I have could look at it and think of it as being "over-engineered". And of course, the term "over-engineered" in no way implies a Design Problem. In fact, it typically means the exact opposite - extreme ruggedness and reliablity. Example: Using a Hummer to grocery shop. But, I'll back off and leave you alone. I realize you simply got into an issue where your apparent lack of first-hand experience with a Remington Trigger and an incorrect comprehension of the outstanding design traits have led you to a totally wrong conclusion. ... Over the years I've noticed people arguing that there is a Remington Trigger Design Problem fall primarily into one of these categories: 1. belkerized sucker - fooled into thinking a problem exists by someone who "gives the appearance" of being an alleged Gun Smith, but really has no concept of basic Mechanical Engineering Principals. 2. Incorrect assessment - looks at the enclosed trigger design, can't see the pieces, has "heard" of an alleged "problem(?)" and therefore assumes there is something wrong. 3. Inanimate Object Fault - heard of someone getting shot by a "Xxxxxx" brand rifle so therefore there is some kind of inherent design problem. This is a favorite of the Ultra-Leftist Radical-Liberals who want to take all our firearms away. 4. Ignorant - just hasn't "learned" why it is such an excellent trigger design. This is nothing to be ashamed of and can be corrected with a bit of thinking(Mechanical Design Logic) and first-hand experience. 5. Brand Loyalists - don't like it because it isn't used on the firearm they prefer. These are generally Rookies who just don't have much experience. Anyway BW - Best of luck to you! | |||
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Hot Core If I had to point to one thing that makes lovers of Remington triggers it would be brand loyalty for Remington rifles. As far as commenting on your statement; These are generally Rookies who just don't have much experience. I'll pass. I myself have had several over the years but slowly gravitated away from them over the years after Dupont was out of the picture as to me their overall quality started slipping. I would be curious to know what you think the reason was why Remington took out another piece in their trigger design several years ago. Many folks probably don't even remember or for that matter know it was in there at one time, do you? Also the trigger from my Wifes rifle, it was one that came off a 721, was sold to a person similar to you who loved them. We were both happy with the deal it seems. I took it apart when all the hub-bub started so I do know exactly what one looks like inside. With all your expert advice you still haven't convinced me that that little thin strip of metal needs to be in there. The fact that you admit you know of no other triggers with one in them fairly well proves the point also I would say. As I said before I won't say they don't work, but I do feel that other designs are simpler and also more reliable. That was enough to convince me to change it. If I was to use a factory Remington trigger I believe I would try to fasten the connector directly to the trigger rather than let it float in the housing. Maybe some folks do this already, I don't know. | |||
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Hot Core, Someday I'll buy a Remington, probably a small caliber in the 25-284 range. I'll simply install an aftermarket trigger in it, and be happy. Best wishes to you too... | |||
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Hey Idared, I've no idea why Remington or any other manufacturer "specifically" makes the changes they elect to make. It would simply be guessing on my part. If it is something they can "spin" to an advantage, we are sure to see it in their ads. I don't always agree with the changes, but it has gotten very costly to manufacture safe firearms. Back in 2000 I got to speak to a bunch of the actual Designers of (I think) 5 different makers. They estimated we each pay an additional 8%-12% per firearm to cover legal costs. This has ramped up from 1%-2% about 25 years ago. If you want to "Thank" someone for those additional costs, go directly to the folks who elected clinton, schumer, etc., the democrat controlled cities that cranked up all the ridiculously frivelous lawsuits, and for sure don't forget the belk supporters. Glad to hear you worked out a deal on your old trigger and best of luck with the new one. ... Hey BW, When you change out the absolutely wonderful, totally SAFE, extremely well designed Remington Factory Trigger, let me know and I'll pay the shipping to me. Just don't shoot it if a buddy of yours stops by and "Tunes it" for you, cause you will know for sure you wasted money on the aftermarket once you have it put in. I have a South Carolina buddy who was able to buy one of the BOSS 270Win M70s before they quit making them. It is extremely accurate for a "hunting" firearm. I really like the contour on that barrel. We shot together a whole lot back then and "occasionally" he would out shoot me. Not often, but enough to become an irritant. I thought about it for awhile and got a Bull Barrelled 308Win M700VLS. He never had a chance. Eventually he bought a 25-06 M700 Sendero and stuck a big Leupold on it. He has made some extremely good kills with it. Best of luck with the new rifle. Oh yes, there is another group: 6. Dejected aftermarket users - those who bought an aftermarket trigger to "improve" the M700s trigger and then realize they totally wasted their money. Most don't even realize you still need to use parts off the wonderful Remington trigger to get "some of" the aftermarket triggers to work properly. Can we get a group Duuuuuuhhhh for them!!! | |||
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My PH in RSA recently commented that a fellow with a new Remington RUM was checking the sights just prior to hunting, and forgot to release the safety when trying to fire. Of course the gun did not fire, so the shooter relaxed, removed his finger from the trigger area, and when he released the safety the gun fired. PH said the finger was clear of the trigger. | |||
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Rick, A friend and a customer of mine who used to live in AK had the same thing happen. He took the safety off and it fired. He didnt have his finger on the trigger despite your not so funny smiley face. His buddy asked what happened and he said he just took the safety off. Tried it again and it did it again. He had never messed with the trigger. He sent it to Remington and they said the trigger was adjusted poorly. He had bought it new and NEVER messed with it. The seals were not broken.  He will not own one and I do not blame him.The inventor of the trigger in question sent an inhouse memo stating the problem the year after he came up with it along with a method to fix the problem. Remington decided then not to. So you can stick your head in the sand and pretend it doesnt happen and listen to that illinformed Hot Core with his supposed expertise bad mouthing anyone who says anything against Remington. Jack Belk does quality work. Never seen anything form Hot Core than bad mouth people who disagree with his employer. BTW, Remington did not fix this trigger, they made is to you can empty the rifle without taking it off safe. It can and does go off on occasion when the safety is released. It has done it enough that Remington has paid over 80 big dollar law suits and they still refuse to do anything about it. Corporate mentality at it's worst. Jim Dubell sent a Remington rifle in for a totally different problem and posted it here. The trigger had not been tampered with or altered. Remington said it had and they replaced it and charge the customer. Jim went way up the food chain and they refused to take the charge off the bill. They would not return the trigger. You are welcome to them. | |||
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Quote: I'm probably missing something here, but isn't the firing pin supposed to fall when the trigger is pressed? Why would that be called an AD? | |||
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No...not in those damned, poorly designed Remingtons!!!! Perhaps firearms manufacturers should be required to rig all rifles with an electrical system that would send a huge dose of voltage into anyone holding the weapon anytime the safety was touched while the trigger finger was in contact with the trigger. Then we could push for federal legislation that required all firearms purchasers to submit to two hours of "shock training" with the rifle prior to being able to leave the store with it...and a repeat series of shocks prior to purchasing any ammunition! Rick  ...Sorry Customstox, I didn't mean to push the smiley button again...it just happened! | |||
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Sorry you didn't like the face! If you go back and read what I said you will find that my statements have been pretty consistent. You will not find that I ever said that Remington rifles (or any other rifles) NEVER (emphasis added) have design or manufacturing defects. What I have consistently stated is that IN MY EXPERIENCE AND OPINION (which I am quite familiar with since they are mine!) the vast majority (not ALL) of accidental discharges are due to operator error not a design flaw in the weapon. If your experiences and opinions differ from that so be it...and have a wonderful day! I own several Remington 700's (never had any safety or trigger problems with any of them) but I have no "loyalty" or association to any firearms manufacturer or anyone who uses this forum. I have never met, heard of, or privately communicated with Mr. Belk, Mr. Hot Core...or you, Mr. Customstox. I think I did meet a Stanley Belk one time...but I am certain I have never met anyone from the "Core" or "Customstox" families! What I find amusing in these types of discussions is that wonderful human proclivity for using a mop to paint something when a smaller paint brush is far more suitable for the task. Rick | |||
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Here is an interesting pdf file. You need to have adobe acrobat reader installed on your computer to view it. If you dont have it you can go to http://www.download.com and install this: http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/meeting.pdf | |||
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