What info/forms/copies are required to ship a old mauser to a gunsmith for rebarreling/repairs??

Do I need a copy of the Gunsmith's FFL?

Do I have to ship from a FFL to another FFL?

Please help - UPS seems to have no Idea what they require.

Thanks

Lance

I have used both ther USPS and UPS and neither asks me what's inb the package.....if they do ask I say fishing equipment.

Anyone can ship to a address of someone owning an FFL.....not to anyone else.....and you don't need an FFL to ship.

"Anyone can ship to a address of someone owning an FFL.....not to anyone else.....and you don't need an FFL to ship."
Not quite accurate.

from the ATF website.

"(B7) May a no- licensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?[Back]


A no- licensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A no- licensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]



(B8) May a no- licensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? [Back]


A no- licensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]"

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/index.htm

Yes, you may ship to a licensed individual and he may ship it back to you.

They make you open the box around here. - UPS anyway.

Thaine: so they have to have a FFL - do you need a copy of their FFL or just the number?

quote:

Originally posted by Thaine:
"Anyone can ship to a address of someone owning an FFL.....not to anyone else.....and you don't need an FFL to ship."
Not quite accurate.

from the ATF website.

"(B7) May a no- licensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?[Back]


A no- licensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A no- licensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]



(B8) May a no- licensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? [Back]


A no- licensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]"

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/index.htm

Yes, you may ship to a licensed individual and he may ship it back to you.

Thaine
thank you for that clarification.

I've never shipped a handgun and never shipped to someone in my same state.....so now we all know the rules for that as well

Excellent post.

Actually I have never had to have anything from them. A ffl copy (faxed is ok) and a copy from the ATF site of the FAQ might help your local UPS realize it is legal. If it was someone in the same state, they don't have to have a license. You may also ship firearms to yourself in another state for YOUR use.

As long as the person you are shipping it to is a FFL licensee you can go down to the post office and send it registered mail. They don't ask what it is and it can go priority mail. I sent one insured/priority last week through the USPS no questions asked.

Here's the convenient Gun Broker FAQ which covers some of the most fequent questions. Please note that the "don't tell them it's a firearm" approach is illegal. Think about trying to recover insurance under those conditions, should it be lost or damaged, as well as hiring a lawyer to keep you from having to make small rocks out of big ones...

Jaywalker

Assuming the gun is going for repair and will be returned to you:

You need to accurately describe it as a firearm for insurance purposes. If it is a high value item, have your local shop send it. They can better verify the value and recover your funds when you talking about thousands of dollars.

If the gunsmith has a brochure or some sort of advertisment, take it with you when you ship the gun. The carrier may want to verify that is a legitimate gunsmith, if it is not the original manufacturer. If it is a small shop with no brochure, you may have to get a copy of their FFL.

If the gun is being transferred and will not be returned to you, then you need a copy of the reciprients FFL.

A little smile to share about UPS girl insisting on looking into my box. Had shipped several times before so the other gal knew what was in it and she wouldn't look. This new girl just insisted she had to!

I explained it was shot up prarie dog heads frozen going to a taxidermy supply. The old gal just smiled and winked at me. Slid a big box of trash over by me knowing what was gonna happen, then she walked across the dock.

Sure as hell!!!!!!! When her eye's got big I turned her around toward the box by the shoulders and stepped back, moving my box away.
Sure took the insistance out of her in a hurry.

George

quote:

KurtC: If the gunsmith has a brochure or some sort of advertisment, take it with you when you ship the gun. The carrier may want to verify that is a legitimate gunsmith, if it is not the original manufacturer.

Good idea, Kurt.

For incoming rifles, I can't always get an FFL, so I presume people I'm shipping to might be similarly constrained. My local FFL ships brings so many in ($15 each!) that he won't even consider sending his FFL out for a private ("Non-Licensee") sale - only if it's coming from a dealer or manufacturer that he knows needs a copy on file.

Jaywalker

Riodot:

You have been given both partially correct and some tottally incorrect information.

I am a Licensee and don't profess to be an expert on the subject. You can read the Federal Regs/Laws on the BATF website.

Since 9-11 there have been much more scruteny in shipping firearms and ammunition.

Have your FFL/Gunsmith send to you a signed copy of his valid FFL. This insures you know he is an FFL. This is your responsibility. You may ship a firearm to a licensee both by UPS and USPS. You are required by law to disclose to the carrier it is a firearm. If it is a longgun it can be shipped ground. See UPS Tarif 425. Handguns must be shipped next day by UPS. Be sure to ship to the address on the FFL and no other. Have the Copy of the shippersor receivers FFL with you when you go to the carrier's place of business. They may or may not ask to see it. You should have a government issue photo ID as well. You may be asked to provide your ID, (Drivers license will work just fine).

When you ship UPS you should ship adult signature required and insured for the replacement value. Keep the tracking number and forward it to the receiver.

If you ship USPS you should ship Restricted Delivery,( to the FFL named and the address on license). You should insure for the replacement value.

In either case (UPS or USPS) no ammunition is allowed in the package with the firearm.

Different jusridictions inturpret things differently. In some jurisdictions if you don't have a copy of the senders or receivers FFL on your person while at the USPS (post office) you could be charged with having a firearm on Federal Government Property this is a felony. This is the only exemption to the federal law allowing you to have a firearm on post office property.

Any FFL should send, mail, and now fax or e-mail a signed copy of their FFL to you the customer. It may have written accross the license "For the purpose of transfer and not purchasing of firearms."

I hope this clarifies how to ship a firearm.

I know some will say what I have stated is not totally necessary. I ship 5-6 guns per week. It is much better to be safe than sorry. The carriers seem to keep an eye on and provide better service when they are required to document the location of the package at any time it is in their custody. The Postal employees don't like the Postal Inspectors on their case, the Postal Inspectors don't like the BATF on their turf any more than you would.
Longshot

Thanks to all!! I think I can get this going now.

Just something to consider if contemplating shipping a firearm and not telling the carrier what it is...if it get’s lost/stolen in transit you are gong to have a hell of a time collecting any insurance you placed on the shipment.

USPS Registered mail is, IMO, the best and safest way to ship long guns. Everytime someone handles a piece of registered mail while in transit they have to sign off on it and that leaves a great paper trail if something happens.

quote:

Originally posted by Riodot:
What info/forms/copies are required to ship a old mauser to a gunsmith for rebarreling/repairs??

Do I need a copy of the Gunsmith's FFL?

NO

quote:

Do I have to ship from a FFL to another FFL?

NO

Please help - UPS seems to have no Idea what they require.

Thanks

Lance[/QUOTE]

You can ship directly to a gunsmith "for repairs & modification", and he can ship it back to you.

If it is a long gun, you can even mail it!

quote:

Longshot: I know some will say what I have stated is not totally necessary.

What you have stated will work but it is not totally necessary.

We don't strictly need the copy of the FFL in hand, because the onus is on the receiver, not the shipper, to comply with the law. We don't ask Remington or Kimber to send us an FFL for that reason.

My dealer, as I said previously, will only provide an FFL for a Licensee (FFL holder), and for his services he charges $15. If I don't care for that approach, I can go to the other dealer, who will charge me $35. So, if a private seller insists on receiving an FFL, I'll lower the price I'll pay for the rifle by by $20.

That being said, it's always a good idea to get the FFL - it's just not strictly, legally, necessary.

Rick0311, I don't care to ship Registered Mail for long guns, except when really necessary, i.e., to or from Alaska or Hawaii, since it runs the price right up, and delays arrival. I declare it as a rifle, ship Priority Mail, Insured, Delivery Confirmation, on the Saturday morning following arrival of funds. In almost every case recently the rifle arrived at destination on Monday afternoon, though one arrived Tuesday.

There was some technical need to ship Registed when going to Hawaii, so it cost me more than the $25 I had allowed for it - $40, IIRC. Again, if someone wants a $40 shipping fee from me, then he'll have to lower his price another $15, since $25 shipping is all I'll pay within the Lower 48.

Jaywalker

Longshot, handguns can go by USPS, but it must be sent FFL to FFL.

I always send guns by registered mail by USPS. I NEVER use UPS, they are notorious for not paying claims on firearms. Registered mail is the most secure and you can insure for about 5 times what you can on priority mail and for about the same money as the max on priority.

quote:

Originally posted by Customstox:
Longshot, handguns can go by USPS, but it must be sent FFL to FFL.

I always send guns by registered mail by USPS. I NEVER use UPS, they are notorious for not paying claims on firearms. Registered mail is the most secure and you can insure for about 5 times what you can on priority mail and for about the same money as the max on priority.

Chic,

The Postal Service recommends shipping firearms just as you stated...Registered mail.

Also, it is a violation of Federal Law to not inform the carrier that there is a firearm being shipped. See page 178 of the most recent Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide sent to all FFL holders.

Rick,
As I have told you, I HAVE to open my box when I am shipping a custom gun. At least when the one part time post office employee is present because he wants to see it. I have the most gun friendly post office. Gotta love it.

Registered mail does not cost that much more and it pretty much eliminates the problem of a gun being lost and I don't want that to happen so I pay the extra.

Chic,

So, does the guy critique your work?

just to clarify the reg. there is no legal requirement to notify the common carrier UNLESS the gun is being shipped to a NON-License holder . This is in the actual CFR reg and not the FAQ answers. Just go to the source. Elmer.

I have shipped my rifle to my gunsmith on several occasions using the USPS. It is legal to ship your rifle/shotgun to a dealer FFL holder without going through another FFL.

Getting it back to you it will have to come thru an FFL.

I remove the barreled action from the stock and this makes for a more compact box. I wrap the two parts in bubble wrap and the suspend those in the box surrounded by packing peanuts.

I tell the person at the counter what I am doing and have never had a problem. If they need to inspect it that's fine with me!

I also us FEDEX overnight. Pack as above and I use a prepaid shipping label from my FEDEX account. Drop the box at the local Kinkos.
Priority Overnight!

After UPS refused to pay an insurance claim, I will never use them again!

Great thread.

Oh boy, did I screw up bigtime! But now I know better.

The trigger bar spring broke on my Taurus PT945 pistol. It's under the right hand grip. But Taurus would not sell me a replacement spring, nor would any other place like Gunparts Corp. They said because it was part of the 'trigger group' it had to be returned to the factory in Miami, FL. The Taurus website said by common carrier. Well, I thought the post office was just about as common as it gets. (No really. That's what I thought.) So I packed it up in the original box, covered it in butcher paper and took it to the local post office. They asked a bunch of questions about the contents, like if it contained aerosols. I answered truthfully, NO to them all. But I did not volunteer that there was a non-functioning handgun unside. You know, don't ask, don't tell. It made it to Miami, Taurus fixed it and sent it back FedEx.
It sounds like I lucked out. I could have been in BIG trouble.

Thanks for all the knowledgeable info, fellas. I won't pull that stupid stunt again. Whew!!!

Shipping or mailing a gun across state lines is legal as long as it is going either to an FFL-holder or to its lawful owner.

If the gun is going to a gunsmith he can ship it back to you directly, it does not need to go through an FFL holder. Likewise, you can ship a gun to yourself in another state and then back (for instance, if you didn't want to go through the hassle of flying with it) and it does not have to go through an FFL-holder.

I have shipped several recently with USPS. I have shipped them priority mail, insured, with delivery confirmation and had no problems.

I have used UPS also recently to ship a rifle back to Winchester. One thing about UPS. They will only ship for a non-licensee if the gun is going to a gunsmith or repair facility and they will only accept the package for shipment at one of their facilities not at a UPS store or such.

Another tip, when you go to ship it whether through UPS or USPS it is best to have printed off the carrier's firearms shipment policy from their website because chances are their employees won't know it and you'll have to show them. To be honest, I have had much better luck and less trouble using the post office, UPS seems to go out of their way to make things difficult for gun owners.

I'll also add that I've used FEDEX as well but they require firearms to go overnight which is too expensive to me compared to UPS or USPS although it was no trouble shipping with them.