Does anyone on this forum remember George M Fullmer from Oakland Cal.? I just purchased a rifle that was done by George that came with a letter from him to the original owner. It's a 30-338 on a 700 Remington with a Hart 1-12 barrel. I was told it was built for sheep hunting. Anything you can tell me about Mr Fullmer would expand my knowledge of this fine rifle. Thanks a bunch. OlCrip

George was an Oakland (California) area gunsmith for many years and did a lot of top notch work for many folks, including a lot of pioneer "super-accuracy" freaks. He was a nice man (if he liked you) and was pretty much overloaded with orders and work in progress. That was in part because George would routinely do things others would not even try. I suspect he liked experimenting as much as he liked guns.

He was loved by many, and hated by some...the latter probably because THEIR project was 10 months (or more) behind its promised delivery date.

Anyway, I would be tickled to have pretty much any of George's products. Of course, one should check the item out carefully before paying any significant amount for it. And, in George's case, one should also try to get as much history on that specific item as possible. Because of George's willingness to try whatever he and the customer dreamed up, many of his products are not always routine in their dimensions.

AC

P.S.:If you want to learn a lot about George, browse through the 1994 and earlier Precision Shooting issues. He was one of editor Dave Brennan's favorites and there is a lot of info by and about George in those magazines

Alberta Canuck, Thanks for the fast reply. I have a letter dated May 11th 1984 with specifications and dimemsions and the different things he did when he built this gun. I'm tickled that I have the letter and the specs. I have a chrono report with no date on this 30-338 with 76gr IMR4831, Fed Primer, 150gr. Sierra HPBT at 3534fps. That sounds like varmint velocity to me. Tenny said he had it built special for a sheep hunt. I'm glad to hear that George Fullmer was a knowledgeable Gunsmith. I paid $850 dollars for it. It shoots great bug holes. I'm concerned about the 1-12 twist barrel being able to stablize a 180 or 200 gr bullet. Should that be a concern?
Is George Fullmer still around?

Olcrip

12 twist is pretty slow for those weights.

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1-12 twist barrel being able to stablize a 180 or 200 gr bullet. Should that be a concern?

180gr is fine in a 1-12, 200gr I prefer a 1-10, but the best way to tell is try them.

I will add the 30-338 is one of my very favorite rounds.

You guys just keep talking. It feels like Christmas to me. I like what I'm hearing. So the price I paid ($850) for the 30-338 is not out of the question?

quote:

Originally posted by olcrip:
Alberta Canuck, Thanks for the fast reply. I have a letter dated May 11th 1984 with specifications and dimemsions and the different things he did when he built this gun. I'm tickled that I have the letter and the specs. I have a chrono report with no date on this 30-338 with 76gr IMR4831, Fed Primer, 150gr. Sierra HPBT at 3534fps. That sounds like varmint velocity to me. Tenny said he had it built special for a sheep hunt. I'm glad to hear that George Fullmer was a knowledgeable Gunsmith. I paid $850 dollars for it. It shoots great bug holes. I'm concerned about the 1-12 twist barrel being able to stablize a 180 or 200 gr bullet. Should that be a concern?
Is George Fullmer still around?

Olcrip

Sorry to be so late replying. I doubt that any pointy 200 grain bullets will stabilize well in most 12" twist .30 barrels. For 1,000-yard shooting 180's may be about max in that twist, and I'd prefer a 1-in-11" twist. BUT, barrels and bullets differ, so you can only try some and see what happens.

I KNOW that 76 grains of 4831 likely won't fit in MY .30/338, and would be at least 6 or more grains OVER absolute MAX if it would fit. Velocities in the 3,500 fps range are WAY optomistic in any .30/338 I have ever seen. That is about what one can safely get out of a .30/.378.

I regret to tell you that I seem to recall reading George's obituary about 5 years ago. I hope that is an old-timer's memory lapse, but it is what lurks in my mind as being the case.

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[I KNOW that 76 grains of 4831 likely won't fit in MY .30/338, and would be at least 6 or more grains OVER absolute MAX if it would fit. Velocities in the 3,500 fps range are WAY optomistic in any .30/338 I have ever seen. That is about what one can safely get out of a .30/.378.]
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Alberta Canuck, I will chrono this load myself when the weather breaks. It's too cold to do any range work here in the midwest. The Chrono print out I got with the rifle goes for 5 shots from 3543 high to 3523 low.with the 76 grain load of Imr 4831. If it proves out to be right I will be tickled pink. Do you really think that a 150gr Sierra HPBT at 3500 or so is optimistic. When the weather dries up and gets around 60 degrees the Fullmer gun will go to the range for a shake out run. I will report back on the results. Did I pay too much for this gun at $850.

Whether you paid too much is a question I can't answer. I'd need to see the rifle, and also understand what all George did on it, and what use you want it to perform. I know one thing, though, it is not likely you could duplicate the gun for anything like that price if George barrreled it. Any additional work, such as blue-printing the action, and so on, makes that even more true.

Of course, it is also a perfect example of why a person can often do better when building a gun by buying a custom action to start with and going from there, IF he is someday going to sell it. Of course, if the gun came from an estate sale, that is a moot question.

Personally, I will be very much surprised if you get 3,500 fps with a 150 grain .30 bullet, but then, anything is likely possible these days with exactly the right powder. Actually, I'd be quite surprised if you get 3,350 fps for an average of 5 shots over an accurate chrono, IF the chamber is cut with the standard .30-/.338 body length to the shoulder.

Be very sure not to start with that load of 76 grains IMR 4831 anyway. If you have a load book with .308 Norma Mag loads in it, I'd start at the lower end of those loads and carefully work up. If it was me, I'd also make a Cerrosafe mould of the chamber and measure the casting very arefully before starting, so I knew exactly what size chamber I had.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

(Wife just called me to supper, so have to run.)

AC

I just looked up some loads for IMR4831 and 150 grain bullets in several different years of Speer manuals known for their "warm" loads. Over the years their recommended loads have dropped noticeably. (These loads were all for the .308 Norma Mag, which is pretty much the same case in shape and size.)



Their #11 book suggests starting loads of 71 grains for a velocity of 2,961 fps, and a max load of 75.0 grains for a velocity of 3,188 fps.

Looking up my old data for my Newton in the .30/.338 chambering I find I did work up to a maximum of 74 grains of H-4831 but H-4831 is a noticeably slower burning powder than the IMR version, so one can use more of it than of the IMR variety. For IMR4831 I had a maximum load of 71.5 grains, with a velocity of 3,179 fps.

The only load Speer lists which gave them more than 3,250 fps with 150 grain bullets was with 80 grains of Norma MRP, which reached 3,263 fps.

So, even if you end up being able to use 76.0 grains IMR4831, it will be interesting and educational to see if you can get more than 3,250 fps with that weight of bullet. Either way, you'll be right on the heels of the .300 Weatherby velocities, and that is plenty good enough for most anything. The .30/.338 is still one very fine cartridge, particularly in the accuracy department.