Over the years, I have, on occasion, had a reamer chatter during the chambering process. As it happens, every one of these offending reamers was made by Clymer. This may be why Max Clymer was the source of the technique I have used for years to eliminate chatter (I can't explain why one would issue instructions to prevent/ correct chatter rather than just chamging reamer geometry to eliminate it but there it is). His instructions were to wrap the reamer in cloth, lube the chamber, and make a cut which would remove the chatter marks. This worked out reasonably well and I have employed this method for years. Interestingly, all of the reamers which chatter worst have been reamers for Mauser caertridges and their derivitives (7x57, 8x57, 257 Roberts).
Anyway, I was chambering a 257 Roberts, yesterday, when the reamer started to chatter. After first trying various things, (slower speed, faster feed, different holder) I wrapped the reamer with a layer of flannel and cleaned up the chamber. Worked fine. I was nearly finished when the reamer started to sing again and I could see just a hint of incipient chatter; almost a frosted appearance to the chamber finish. I only had about sixty thou to go but experience has shown me that it was unlikely to get better. It was so minimal that I didn't really want to do the flannel thing again so I decided on an alternative. About fifteen years ago, someone (and I honestly cannot remember who) told me that filling the flutes with modeling clay (plasticene) was a good way to eliminate chatter so I decided to give it a try. Did it ever work great! Not only was there no hint of chatter, the surface finish was as nice as any chamber I've ever cut. The only drawback is that the plasticene is a little difficult to clean up but a little varsol and a brush did the trick.
Now, this 257 was on a Mauser action so there was no reason to leave it with the very short original throat so I got out my new throater to run the throat out by .165" to accomodate a 100 grain Hornady seated the way I wanted it. I had ordered this particular throater from Pacific Tool and Gauge and the first one I received was some kind of fancy set up with an adjustable stop and bore little resemblance to the throaters I have been buying from a bunch of makers for the last thirty five years so I sent it back with a note saying I just wanted a 25 caliber throater, dammit. The replacement arrived and looked normal enough, at a glance, so I shoved it in the drawer and had not looked at it again. Well, I took it out and the pilot looked a little small so I measured it and the calipers said .240". What the heck kind pf 25 cal pilot is that?, I wondered.
As I looked more closely at the reamer, I thought it looked a little small too so I measured it. It measured, roughly, .250". I looked at the shank and it was marked "25 Auto Throater". Well, crap.
The only other 25 cal throater I have is an old Clymer which, no surprise, has a tendency to chatter, hence the replacement reamer. Having just had such success with the modeling clay, I was going to try it again but I decided, if plasticene worked, maybe a heavy grease would work as well and clean up better. I took out a tub of heavy wheel bearing grease and smeared some into the flutes. I fed the reamer in until I felt it touch the lands then reamed .165. It felt good. I wiped the barrel out and had a look and it was a fine looking throat; no chatter.
Next time I chamber a barrel with one of the chatter-master Clymers, I may try grease in the flutes at the start and might nip the chatter in the bud.
Anyway, if you have trouble with a chattering reamer, plasticene appears to work as well as the flannel. The jury is still out on the heavy grease but I think it might do if you have not let the chatter get out of hand. Regards, Bill.

I have heard the same complaint about the Plasticine Billy. It's stickier than baby shit and hard to clean up. A couple guys that I know use PlayDough. They claim it works just as good and cleans up easier. I tried it years ago and found that it wasn't sticky enough and you kind of had to force it into the chamber with your fingers or a pencil to get it in enough to support the reamer. I went back to the standard Plasticine that you buy at the hardware stores. I have heard of the grease thingy but I have never tried it. I have used the cloth trick but some times it will force the reamer to cut only on a couple of flutes and give an out sized chamber if everything isn't locked up dead solid. (I like to float the barrel in the steady) so I gave it up.

The old Hendrickson reamers "no relation, I don't got no D" and the Guild reamers used to chatter really bad too. I asked Keith Francis about that 20 years ago and he said the geometry was set up to cut to hard (trying to fight chamber rings) which caused the flutes to flex and break free. Also, the knuckleheads didn't stagger their flutes enough and it would set up the harmonic chatter that we see and have to fight with. It sounded like a damned good reason to me, so I use it.

Plasticine by Rod Henrickson, on Flickr

Learned something new today.
Thank you

You will get the same results by packing the flutes with grease; I use GAA when this happens, which is not very often. Some barrel steel seems to have hard spots in it too.

Much, much too messy for me. Try some plain old waxed paper you buy in the grocery store. Wrap it around the reamer and give 'er hell. I also have a brochure put out by Dave Manson who advocates slipping a small cleaning patch over the neck, shoulder area. I'd heard about the grease and clay deal but this stuff worked so well did not need it.

Try it, you'll like it

Jim

I don't suppose it much matters what you use, so long as you can pack the flutes to give the reamer some more support and break the vibration. I got mad about 8 years back and put all of my wildcat reamers on EBay and sold them. Most had only been used once and I had about 100 reamers that were just collecting dust. I used to mark the ones that had chattered with a felt pen and every one of those noisy, bitchy, fawkers went on the chopping block. Some where out there, about 20 guys, really hate my guts right now. And I don't care.

Seems to me back (in the old days 40+ yrs) when the old smith cut my first chamber he used some of the grease they would put on old wooden wagon wheels. But, I've sure slept since them.

Another interesting thing: I had a 7 Mag reamer which wanted to chatter and always had to watch it pretty closely. A fellow borrowed it and broke a chunk out of one cutting edge (just bad luck, I figured). I had a 7mm Mag to cut and didn't want to wait so I just ground the edge off for the full length and gave it a try. Worked great and never chattered again. I replaced it just because it bugged me but I don't think I would have had to.
Rod,
I hear you on the possibility of cutting oversize using the rag technique. My own 8x57 chattered badly when the chamber was about 2/3 depth. I wrapped the reamer and cut out the chatter but the reamer cut enough over that there is a minor step about 5/8 inch back from the shoulder. In this case, the solid pilot was way undersize and the front of the reamer was able to move over too much. Not much of a step (about two thou) and it doesn't affect anything but it's still not attractive. Good thing it's my own. Regards, Bill

I remember a good one back about 25 years ago when I worked at Custom Gun Billy. Ronnie Zinkan figured he would get rich on his days off by putting together an old Mauser action, a Douglas #1 Pre64 conture barrel and a AAA fancy block of claro that he stole from someone at a gun show. He chambered it in 7x57 and of course the reamer chattered on him from the minute the pilot touched the bore. He stuck a patch on it and broke the chatter but every time he tried to take the reamer off the nipple it would start to cry again so he had to fight with it until the bloody end. To add insult to injury when he test fired it the chamber measured about .020 oversize at the base. If memory serves, part of the problem was one of those foolish floating reamer holders and probably the reamer cutting trough on only one side of the patch. Of course there was no setting back that Douglas barrel and the stock came out great. But by the time all was said and done he had to take a pretty bad beating to get rid of it because of the over sized chamber.

I'm not a machinist, but cannot chatter be controlled by feed rate and/or RPM (w/proper lubrication)?

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
I'm not a machinist, but cannot chatter be controlled by feed rate and/or RPM (w/proper lubrication)?

One would initially assume so. But chamber reamers are actually forming reamers. They cut on the full length of all of their flutes. Some times, with some calibers you can have up to 18 lineal inches of cutting edge all cutting at once.(theoretically) For the reamer maker, to make the reamers actually cut is a science unto itself and to make them cut clean, with no rings or chatter is nothing short of black magic. Even with today's CNC equipment and diamond grinding wheels you can still get the odd reamer that won't behave.

To make maters worse. Every caliber has a different body taper, diameter and differing cutting edge angles and flute staggering from one manufacturer to the next. The steel in the barrels it's actually really crappy material to ream. Its butter soft and often just barely on the C scale so it likes to rip and tear as opposed to giving a high sheen, reamed finish like you would see in something around 24 to 30 points C.

Turning too fast seems to give reamer squeal which can lead to chatter and it will cut over sized at high speeds too. Especially if you use floating holders or float the barrel as I do. The maximum ludicrous speed to ream at seems to be about 300 RPM and after that you run into problems. Owing that most lathes start at about 90 RPM and have about 3 speeds between 90 and 300 you really don't have much to choose from. By the time you figure out what speed seems to work best you're usually finished the chamber.

The feed rates are pretty simple. Give the reamer whatever it wants to take. Without a common frame of reference that sounds a bit vague but if you push to light the reamer won't cut, it will jerk and chatter, create rings and it will quickly wear the cutting edges off the flutes. Cut to hard and it will shatter the reamer or break chips out of the flutes. There is a happy spot there where you drive it in and suddenly your cutting pressure just seems to drop off a bit and everything smooths up. That's about the only feed you get. All reamers have a different sweet spot and most guys with experience just naturally find it on the first cut.

Suffice to say, it's not an exacting science.

Thanks for the tip Bill.

If anyone would like a copy of an article written several years ago about reamer chatter and how to combat it, please e-mail me at david@mansonreamers.com.

I will NOT use your e-mail to send promotions and other unwanted crap.

Dave Manson

I was reminded today by some of the people who answer e-mails, that the Chatter article is also posted on our website. www.mansonreamers.com

Dave Manson

Could you fill the flutes with helium?

I don't know if would help chatter but should float the chips away nicely. Regards, Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
I don't know if would help chatter but should float the chips away nicely. Regards, Bill

Only if the barrel steel is one of the helium soluble variety Billy. I think Unobtainium 001-1/2 is one of those types.

quote:

Originally posted by DManson:
I was reminded today by some of the people who answer e-mails, that the Chatter article is also posted on our website. www.mansonreamers.com

Dave Manson

An outstanding article, Sir!