I can't find a quick turn around for some new bottom metal, so I'm going to try my hand at rust bluing.

Looking for something that is easy to use and get's as close to a factory blue finish as possible. I know the rust blue finishes can be a bit more matte, but the more polished appearing, the better.

And assume for small pieces, use a brush for the tight spots? Any oil recommendations or just standard Rem Oil for curing?

Brownells sells a couple of brands; I am not sure it makes any difference; it's just a way to make rust. Fine grained rust.

If you want easy use, Laurel Mtn Forge's solution works very well. If there's a solution that gives close to a factory blue finish, Id like to know what it is, rust bluing is usually blue/black or black/blue. I use ATF for "curing".

Mark Lee works well as does Pilkingtons'. Pick your poison. For those 'small jobs', like you're talking about, the hand carding brush that Brownells sells and some de-greased/de-oiled 0000 steel wool will be fine. No need for the carding wheels, although I use them but on a "commercial" basis. A SS soup pot off of e-bay used on a hot plate or camp stove will suffice for moisture (to accelerate the rusting).

If you have never done it before Laurel Mtn Forge is your best bet. Hard part is polishing. Be sure you application is in 1 direction only otherwise expect a streaked look.

http://www.rustblue.com/ you might look at this web site...

The secret is also NOT to try and shortcut the boiling off. But even so it can be done in less than three hours.

I first degrease the part and then boil in boiling water. Then holding it with metal forceps apply the rust blue.

Hold it over the steam from the boiling water to get a fine mist of steam on it. Leave for thirty minutes then boil in boiling water.

Use wire wool dampened with acetone to rub off the black powder that has formed.

Holding with forceps again apply the rust blue and hold over the steam from your boiling water to put a fine mist of steam over it.

Wait thirty minutes and then boil off, clean with the acetone treated wire wool and re-apply the rust blue.

Steam and applow thirty minutes to rest. Repeat the boiling and cleaning as before noted.

You do this for two more times and pretty much the job is done.

If you don't boil it off between each process you will get a matte finish as obviously the rusting is still doing its work. Boiling off is most important.

Do you have to change the water that you are boiling after you submerge each time?

I looked at the different formulas and it looks like Mark Lee is the easiest to use?

I do not change water each time, but use distiller or clean rain water.

I use Pilkingtons and use a lot of Laurel Mountain brown, which if you boil it, it will turn black. The process Enfield describes is the "accelerated" method; rather than the "slow" method. I can't tell any diff. As said, getting it applied evenly the first time is important; and don't apply too much; if you get droplets, you are screwed. I have never used Lee blue but once you get the rust, it will turn blue when you boil it no matter how it got there. You want a fine grained rust or you will get a more matte finish, which some like.

I don't change the water either, but do make sure that it is topped up. So that when boiling the parts are submerged.

I also pour a small amount of the blacking solution into a small shallow container. So that you are not putting the cotton wool ball directly over the bottle mouth with the rest of the blacking solution in it.

So only what you need gets "soiled" if that is to happen sometimes.

Lastly if you want to be wholly sure that there is no after rusting (which there should not be if that last boil is done correctly) add some washing soda crystals to the last boil.

Which solution is the finest grained?

Grain size can be controlled by the addition of ethyl or methyl alcohol. Usually up to 2-3% by volume. Alcohol decreases grain size and increases brilliance.

Bob
www.rustblue.com

quote:

Originally posted by Austin Hunter:
Which solution is the finest grained?

Thanks!

I also boil again after the final rust and card, and then one final light card.

It is most important to use distilled water.
ap or well water can drive you nuts.

Re tap vs distilled here in the area where I live in England we have natural soft water that comes direct from reservoirs.

Now where my grandmother came from the water was hard. So things got "fur" inside them. I I would not use that for blacking.

But never a problem here, with "fur", or deposits in the water in this area, in forty or fifty years.

So, truth to say, I just use it and have found no difference between it and distilled water...as AFAIK essentially reservoir water is rainwater aka distilled water.

BUT if you live in a hard water area then I'd absolutely use distilled water.

The water is "as hard as nails", here. I have a water softener in the house and another in the shop (radiant floor heating, wouldn't want to 'clog' the piping or the boiler!). Water, that's been "softened", works fine. We've got reverse osmosis in the house. I saved up several gallons to use for rust bluing, I saw no difference in the finish. Prep and cleaning are paramount. Method of application matters. The devil is in the Details, just like any other gunsmithing task.

Eliminate water issues by steaming the parts in PVC or metal pipes/containers.Steam leaves impurities behind.

Can someone please let me what you do for iron when making your own solution.

I live in New Zealand and we cannot get the commercial products here - like Pilkington etc.

So I have got about 2 oz each of Nitric & hydrochloric acid and plan to use a British tradition formula of dissolving iron in the HCL and then adding NaCL to the solution to make up the mix.

I have tried to get some access to lab chemicals but no luck.

I would guess plain old iron filings? Are there no school chemical class suppliers at all in NZ?

Yes that is exactly what I found - Technical grade. Costing me $20 + shipping for a small pack.

Strange - I searched for the same stuff on Google a few years ago & found nothing!

There is other stuff - Iron filing from toy shops for magnet kits etc. but no specification about being free of oils.

Niedner Cold Blue

Nitric acid, 2 1/2oz
Hydrochloric acid, 2 oz
Wire nails, 1 oz
Distilled water, 30 oz

From, Gunsmithing, Dunlop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Xsh9J7S-g

How to make ferric chloride

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Can someone please let me what you do for iron when making your own solution.

I live in New Zealand and we cannot get the commercial products here - like Pilkington etc.

So I have got about 2 oz each of Nitric & hydrochloric acid and plan to use a British tradition formula of dissolving iron in the HCL and then adding NaCL to the solution to make up the mix.

I have tried to get some access to lab chemicals but no luck.

I actually found Ferric Chloride from an electronics supply firm that we use all the time (element14) as it is used for etching PCBs.

It costs only $11.62 for the 500gm powder in a 1 lit bottle - lots of space to make up the solution.

So I do not have to worry about dissolving de-greased pure iron in Hydrochloric acid. Much easier and far less messy.

With these two you could do fume rust bluing. not that I'd suggest it.

quote:

Nitric acid, 2 1/2oz
Hydrochloric acid, 2 oz

I use the condensate runoff water fom the A/C unit as my rust blue boiling water. I collect it in rinsed out gal plastic milk jugs and store an extra 40gals in a new/un-used plastic trash can. That gets me thru the fall and winter.
I've done this for nearly 40 years this way, never a problem w/the water that way. The local tap water isn't usable for this and though I've been told by some experts that the condensate runoff from the copper coils of the A/C will cause problems,,I've never seen it in hundreds of rust blue jobs.

I change the water and give the tank a quick scrub down after about 5 boiling cycles using a slow rust blue. The water just seems to get depleted for lack of a better word.

It gets dirty from the rust and as much as you clean the parts, the tinyest speck of oil left on the part(s) will boil off into the water and cause a slick on the surface. Better to keep things clean.
If there's any trick to this,,it's keeping things clean.

I use both Mark Lee for Quick-Rust blue and Laurel Mtn for SlowRust blue.
They both have their advantages. Sometimes a part will accept one soln better than another. Sometimes I will SlowRust blue the parts and finish them up with one or two coats of QuickRust blue. Seems to enhance the color and it does kill any after-rust,,something Laurel Mtn is known for.

I stay away from the older solns (most were quick rust) that have mercury bichloride in them. Yes they work well (excellent),but the mercury stays behind with you. Bad stuff and I'm a poster boy for it. Take it for what it's worth.
There's too many safer soln's to use now.

Ferric Chloride was available at electronic/radio repair places (Radio Shack) as circuit panel etching soln (copper etching). It etches steel also as well as it causes it to rust. A lot depends on the soln strength.
(Laurel Mt soln is primarily Ferric Chloride)

It's also used in the etch process during damascus finishing to bring out the pattern between browning (or bluing) cycles.
I use a very weak soln of it here,,about 2 or 3% is all. Into and out of the stuff as quick as you can and then rinse and wet card the bbl.

Muzzle Loader rifle makers use AquaFortis Stain to turn near white colored maple wood to a deep reddish brown color.
AquaFortis is Ferric Chloride (Iron Chloride). Available as a commercial wood stain product to the trade or make your own,,same process of letting nails or other small bits of iron/steel dissolve in the acid till no more will dissolve.
The most important thing is to make sure you've dissolved all the iron that the acid will take.
..and do it outside as there's plenty of fumes and smoke to the reaction.

In using the product as a wood stain, it is swabbed on the wood,,let dry. Then the color is brought out by 'blushing' it,,using intense heat or even a flame very close to the wood surface to turn the color but not burn or singe the wood itself.

Another cheap but very efficient and aggresive rusting agent is Sal-Ammoniac.
It's a natural mineral,,ammonium chloride. It's used,,or was used commonly as as a soldering flux amoung other things.
I still see it for sale in Welding supply stores. It's sold in small blocks about the size of a bar of soap usually.
For slow rust browning/bluing,,you break off a chunk of the stuff and disolve it in water. It disolves in water very nicely. Use that soln as your rusting soln just as you would any other. Apply at room temp to the clean surface. Let the steel rust. Boil the part to turn the brown rust to blu/black. Card the surface. Recoat and let it rust again.

If you use Sal-Ammoniac as a soldering flux,,or a flux in lead casting, be aware that the fumes from the stuff will drift about the room and where ever they land on an unprotected steel surface can cause rust. Works good!

The only solution I've used is Gun Godess from the Half Moon Rile Shop. It's what I started with, results were excellent so saw no reason to change to something else.