I am thinking of changing my Savage mod. 40 (.22 hornet) to the K-hornet. Can I do this without taking the barrel off? I was thinking of reaming it through the receiver using an extension on the reamer. What I didn’t know was if the barrel face has to be faced some so that the shell doesn’t seat on the rim.

Is the K-hornet more accurate?

Do the shells last longer?

How many more FPS can you get from the K-hornet vs the standard hornet?

Buck,

You are ALWAYS better off pulling the barrel. The improved case design should help the brass last a bit longer than the stock offering.

Buck

There are so many different versions of the K Hornet that it would be hard to list them all here. But in general, an Improved Hornet will deliver maybe 10 to 20% more velocity. As far as accuracy, that's in the barrel and bullets, not in the chambering.

I'm not sure what you mean by "facing off the barrel" but an Improved Hornet should be chambered so that it does seat on the rim. That ensures that the case is fully fire-formed. Once the cases are formed it really doesn't make all that much difference because the Hornet is not exactly known for it's one-hole accuracy and you'll probably not notice any difference between seating on the rim or on the shoulder.

As malm says, it's always better to chamber with barrel off but IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING it can be done through the receiver.

Ray

The advantage to removing the barrel from the receiver would be to slightly recut the rim recess and face a little off of the barrel in order to create the minimum headspace. As Cheechako alludes to, you will be headspacing on the shoulder of the K-Hornet anyway, so only the first firing matters insofar as rim headspace is concerned. Do it whichever way your gunsmith is most comfortable doing it.

I have both the K-Hornet and regular Hornet. Velocity is not different enough to justify the alteration (use a .222/.223 if you want more velocity), and properly neck-sized only, there's little difference in case life or reloadability. Having both, I wouldn't rechamber unless you have an oversized or otherwise undesirable chamber to begin with.

Savage Model 40 Hornets are not exactly common as dirt these days, so if you have one that is otherwise still all original, I would not rechamber it to anything else.

Loaded to the same pressures, I do not believe you will get any significant increase in velocities. The general rule of thumb is that for every 4% increase in case capacity, you can expect about 1% increase in velocity, if you maintain the same pressure levels in your loads. If you want to load to higher pressures for higher velocities, you can do that in the standard Hornet. The limiting factor in the Hornet is really the not very great strength of the case head around the primer pocket.

I have both standard and improved Hornets at the moment (A Martini K-Hornet and a TCR-83 standard Hornet), and have had numerous others in the past, ranging from Savage M19-H & 23-D, through other Martinis, Anshutz, M54 Winchester, Savage 219, Brno & BSA bolt actions, and several others.

The K-Hornet LOOKS a lot "sexier" to me, but in truth I have never found it one whit better for field use.

As Thompson Center said about rimmed cartridges in their firearms that also have a bottleneck, should be sized to headspace off the shoulder. This makes the brass last longer. One of the things major wrong with the belted magnums is that exact thing. The are suppose to headspace off the belt and most resizing dies push the shoulder back some thus leaving space for the brass to expand and the end results is case separation in front of the web.

As for Hornets not being accurate I have a limity run of the CZ with a fiberglass stock. The rifle wears a thin sporter barrel. With 45 Gr Hornady V-Max bullets atop a max amount of WW 296 power, it's shoots five shot 3/8 in holes at 100 yards consistantly. I use the Lee collet die which only resized the neck. I haven't lost one piece of brass in all the years I've been shooting it.

I don't see a justification to go to K-Hornet if you want more speed. Like the other poster said get a 222 or 223. That's one reason they make alot of different cartridges in the same caliber range.

Thanks for all of the advice. I have been shooting factory Hornady 35gr V-Max’s at 3150fps. They really do the trick on small varmints, but they were getting expensive, almost as much as good .223’s. I have started reloading; my main frustration is that I don’t see any loads that will match the 3150 fps. that I am getting from the factory loads. I am currently loading 13 grains of Lil Gun with CCI pistol primers, and 35gr V-Max’s. With this I am getting 3000fps.

I see that Lil Gun produces very little pressure, should I try a little more power?

Buck,

I would stay away from any improved chamberings on rimmed or belted brass. The problem is that the shoulder gets blown forward and pulls metal from the expansion web even more than the standard chamber. Not that many rimmed chambers don't have way too much headspace to the shoulder anyway.

The hornets that I am familar with shoot best with factory loads. Rather than trying to wring out more velocity I would just use that case with light loads for shorter ranges and reap the benefits of less noise.

Then get a rifle chambered for a rimless bottlenecked round and load it with both reduced loads and full power loads. Those are much more satisfactory chamberings.

For instance a 223 or a 22-250 can be loaded to hornet ballistics and you can still carry full power loads for longer shots.

I've had a couple of K-Hornets, always because I get tired of trimming the brass more than anything on the factory chamber.

I've never noticed a decrease in accuracy, although the reamer I've used from 4-D does cut the throat a little longer which may help with the 50-53gr. bullets.

Velocity - 10%+, although I haven't pushed them very hard - for exactly the reason mentioned above, the .223.

Its a neat cartridge, its easier to reload(in my opinion - its a bitch to throw or pour the powder in the factory case) - brass life is nearly indefinate I've found.

Like I've said, I use the Lee collet dies, which is basically a neck sizer and I haven't lost or had to trim a Hornet case in years. Anyone who full length sizes them, they headspace on the rim then, and they're going to grow that way. A knowledgeable reloader should know that. You don't have to led your Hornet case grow and you don't have to go to a K-Hornet.

quote:

Originally posted by MaxPayne:
I haven't lost or had to trim a Hornet case in years.

Anyone who full length sizes them, they headspace on the rim then, and they're going to grow that way.

A knowledgeable reloader should know that.

Max,

I chose to full length size, as I do for every cartridge that I reload for. Because you choose not too doesn't make you any more or less experienced, it just makes you an asshole for telling everyone you think you are.

My Winchester cases in factory Hornet chamber's(T/C, H&R, CZ) lengthen nearly .002 every time I pull the trigger.

The K-Hornet cases grow less than .001, on the same actions.

Neither cartridge is headspacing on the shoulder, as it is my belief that is a joke on this particular cartridge - regardless of the chamber variation, due to the thin cartridge walls. Here is my rationale:

Fireform a piece of brass, decap it with a pin, clean and measure the depth to the primer cup in a Wilson case gauge, reseat a primer that has had the priming compound dug out - drop it in a H&R or T/C - pull the trigger, decap, clean and measure again - more often than not - the distance is longer by .001 or slightly more. So either the closing of the action set the shoulder back, or the impact of the firing pin/hammer did. I've done the same test using .223, .243 and .30-30. Guess which one acted the same way as the Hornet?

the k hornet was developed as a means more to stop case streching, and improve accuracy than it was to increase velocity. in fireforming the hornet cases usually hit to the sighted point and form easily. The is a substantial velocity increase and the round does not give the flyers regular hornets are noted for. I wouldn't consider doing the work myself just because most gunsmiths have the reamer and only charge 35-50 to do it. I can't even rent a reamer for that leave alone set up a machine to do it. all in all there is no reason that i know of to not rechamber to K.

Fire,

Let me guess..ah ah, hmmmmm ah..the 30-30?

Nobody here could pay me enough to rechamber my CZ to the K-Hornet, that's how good it shoots.

After firing my brass for many many times, for the heck of it I decided to trim them to see how much they grew. Well lets say the trimmer barely took any off. Maybe I'm lucky or my Hornet is abnormal. I use both Win and Rem brass.

I had a Brno ZKW465 rechambered to K-Hornet. It was a dandy, a joy to carry, considered by some Brno's finest offering. Alas I traded it for a ZKK601 in 223, a faster more accurate round in my experience, but a heavier rifle.

Interesting read - I sometimes hanker for a hornet in my k95 but end up using small amounts of faster powder in my 5.6x50R.