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Considering the idea, so interested to know if you have one,or played with one, and do you still like the idea now that youve got one built that way? - Do you really miss the floorplate? -Does a blind bottom small ring Intermediate, make it lighter than you really like? This G33/40 comes in at 7.3lb, so I guess a SR-intermediate without full bottom metal might be around 6.80lb scoped? I dont know, just lookin for somethin different,more simple, but might regret it later. They look kind of cumfy to carry with that round bottom.  Modified photo of Lee H. shortened to Intermediate length(for 7x57), shortened forend&chamber reinforce.  Original Lee H. rifle,270win.  Billeb 7x57 with full B-Metal.  | ||
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Never had a mauser with one, but I do have a rem 1917 with a blind mag. The only dislike I have is the reduced magazine capacity. But that is probaby more due to the stock design than the fact it has a blind box. -Don | |||
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That is what I plan on doing with my 338-06. It does save weight. It is not just the wright of the floorplate but the majority of the bottom metal. Regarding the floor plate convenience. Ask yourself this question. How many times are you in a hurry to unload your magazine. Does anybody know who has the the stock patterns for the above pictureed rifles. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I don't like any bolt rifle with the bottom metal missing. Mauser, Remington, Winchester etc. It just doesn't look right to me. Even the rifle pictured above. If you look at it from the bottom it just isn't right. Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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Terry, I too generally prefer bottom metal but I have seen some darn nice blind magazine mausers. What strikes me about the Helgeland rifle is that it lack enough taper in the fore arm. It appears too thick and straight. Mike, who are you getting to do your .338-06? I've shot Remingtons a lot and most of mine never had a floorplate. I never felt handicapped by not being able to speed un-load. | |||
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Why not make a single shot Mauser if you want it skinny? | |||
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At Reno last winter one of the Guild makers had a very nice Mauser with no bottom metal. I think the magazine may have been reduced to 3 down. It made a very trim piece and would lend itself to a mountain type hunting riflevery nicely. I think the maker was named Nelson- Clayton, Steve??? Chic, help me out here as you probably know him. I didn't get a chance to discuss it with him but I would think the trigger would also have to be shortened too. stocker | |||
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I have a 1912 Steyr Mauser with a blind magazine. The rifle is mounted on a harry lawson Mountaineer thumbhole stock. The barrel is chambered to the .308 Win., is 19" long and the entire rifle with 4X Leupold compact scope, 3 rounds in the magazine and one up the spout and sling weighs exactly 5.0 pounds. Personally though, I don't much care for blind magazines, particularly on push feed rifles. Somehow, the idea of chambering a round to remove it from the gun really does not thrill me. I don't care how careful one is,stuff does happen. Paul B. | |||
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I've built several in a fiberglass stock, never have done a wood. I find al old mil M98 with the stamped box. Cut the rest of the bottom metal off of it. Then use a M700 ADL trigger guard. It saves quite a bit of weight. I don't normal dump the shells out the bottom anyway. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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I really like the ADL type mauser. I've measured and it saves on average 13 oz. on a typical build. That's a loopy 6x38 all up. I cut the box loose from the bottom metal and thin it up and mill it out to max COAL . I fit and tape for clearance the mag box....13oz lighter. I'm wondering for a Montana mountain rifle ..why bottom metal? | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by ireload2: Why not make a single shot Mauser if you want it skinny?[QUOTE] A super trim&light reduced depth box mauser(as "stocker" talks about) is great, but one with less than one up the spout and two or three down(7x57) would be unthinkable!  | |||
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I like them on a light rifle. I have an action I shortened and lightened and one day it will be in a stock w/blind magazine. Well, in theory at least. It would be a little embarrassing to admit how long ago I began the project! | |||
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Thought about a single shot mauser, but not for long. TC1, how bout this rifle? Intermediate length-Blind(Tguard,Brl reinforce,forend,f-endTip,& barrel, have all been shortened)  Original std.m98 image below.  Stocker, If reducing the depth of magazine stack,you can buy shorter depth triggers:  | |||
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Mike McCabe is going to build my rifle Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I have one and I really like it. I understand the function of the bottom metal in a military rifle but can not understand the function in a sporting rifle. If you own a gun and you are not a member of the NRA and other pro 2nd amendment organizations then YOU are part of the problem. | |||
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WJ - How 'bout creating a flush floorplate? Would take a little very cool engineering/design work... But 'twould be just as comfortable as a blind mag and SOMETHING NEW!  | |||
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Woodjack, every single time I see one of these blind box Mauser's (especially a nice one) the first thing that pop's in my mind is "Gee, that would have been a lot nicer if it had all the parts." To me it just mess's up the lines on a fine rifle and I can think of no good reason to do it. The bottom picture of the cut down bown box with the bottom metal, I could go for that. Now these are just my own humble opinions and if you have one or are having one built and you like it, well I can't find any fault in that but, for me, all my rifles will have the bottom metal. It would appear I'm in the minority on this one and that's fine. I'll always' tell you what I really think and I always' try to think for myself. Some have asked why is it needed. I can think of several good reasons. 1. For fast unloading. If you ever hunt where it's not allowed to have a loaded gun on the road I find it a benefit. 2. If your rifle ever jams it can be easier to clear from the bottom than the top. This isn't supposed to happen, but it can. 3. Woodjack started this thread off asking about bottom metal and showing pictures of rifles that probably start in the $8000-$9000 range and go up. Nothing to justify here. At those prices, if you want it you get it. Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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You might find this kinda funny (or see the mental hang up I have about it anyway  ) Last year when Remington discontinued the their titanium rifles I thought it would be a great time to buy a plastic stocked stainless steel rifle. Everything in the safe is wood and chromoly and requires some extra attention when I hunt in the rain with it. So I found one at a great price and bought it. I went with the Ti version for a lot of different reasons, but one of the big draw backs is they all only come in the ADL setup. I thought "no big deal" it's just a beater rifle to hunt on rainy day's. Well after owning the rifle for about 3 months I just couldn't stand it anymore. I went out and bought a BDL stock and some new bottom metal. I feel better now. Terry   -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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Regarding unlaoding the magazine on Mausers, I do it with the bolt anyway. You just have to push the bolt forward about 1/2" and the extractor has the case. Then pull the bolt back and it ejects. It is fast and 100% safe. This is faster than dropping the hinged floorplate. I have hunted the most with the first rifle I made where I did the wood and metal. At the time, hinging a floorplate was above my head. It has a lever on the detachable floorplate and to me is a pain to use. if I ever refinish the rifle I will hinge the floorplate. Another Mauser is a 21H, and it also has a detachable floorplate, so I unload it the same way-just quickly push-pull the bolt a little. I prefer hinegd floorplates unless you are trying to sav eweight. Their biggest asset is the ability to clear a jam in a hurry. I would not have a DGR with a blind mag, but an Alpine rifle would be fine for me. | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by 1 Shot Hunter: WJ - How 'bout creating a flush floorplate? Would take a little very cool engineering/design work... But 'twould be just as comfortable as a blind mag and SOMETHING NEW! [QUOTE]Briefly thought about the concept myself, will put it to my bigbrain riflesmith for discussion. MarkStokeld, Yes, the halfway fed bolt method of cartridge magbox unloading works fine and rather safely. TC1, The easier clearing of a jam or cleaning of excessive dust/dirt is good reason for a swingin' bottom end...., THE price/grade of the rifle I feel is not the big issue. Someone can have the functional features they want within abroad range of budgets, but yes, if one wants premier wood, stocking and metal,they gotsto pays for it. | |||
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For my own personal firearms, the idea of blind magazines is great as light weight is among my high priorities. I use P.A.W.S die cast bottom metal for this reason now and it really helps but I'd go with a blind magazine in a heartbeat. I sure don't know what I'd do with these Bastogne stocks that have the inletting for bottom metal however! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Woodjack, what I meant to say is at the price of the above rifles. The owner should be happy with his purchase. If he didn't want bottom metal there shouldn't be any. On the first rifle pictured in this thread. Does the triggerguard not look out of place to you? The rest of the rifle is beautiful. Then look at the nice Blackburn bottom metal on the Bileb Mauser in the same post. That just looks right to me. Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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Yes the first rifle photo does appear little perculiar in the bottom metal region, but ive not seen aton of them,so im not very familiar with the finer points of blind bottom ends. I would have to handle the thing to be sure of how I felt with it overall.Depending on that, I might just be mildly forgiving of some things,if the rifle offers me something in another department that I really like or gives real world practicle advantage for my needs.(ie;weight parrameter,handling,capacity) For example, I really like the HagnSmallframe FB,makes an incredibly trim light affair,but to be honest, I really do prefer more capacity and ease and speed of feed&eject(happy with 1up,2down)and I prefer scopes mounted on the receiver. A blind bottom stripped out mauser would not be far of the Hagn weight,but with more practical advantages. Funny thing is with custom rifles, you have more options according to ones larger budget. Some may think that great,but sometimes it has the opposite effect,it harder to decide. Thats just the start,then you have to find a smith who is willing,capable and that will deliver. Nothing to get upset about,just have to deal with the nature of the beast. Its less concern to me if I build up a M70synthetic and get the bottom end choice wrong,than with a premium mauser,that costs much more time and money. got to do your homework as best you can. | |||
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I truly do not see how this could be faster than dropping the bottom mettal, but I'll take your word for it. This is a personal matter of like/dislike anyway. My first custom rifle was a M98 Argentine 1909, with a blind agazine. It is ok if I hunt alone, but on an social hunt were one relocates many times during the day, in and out of cars, I much prefer to drop the floorplate. For slimmer versions, I have made a few with a chopped off magazine-walls, reducing capasity from 5 to 3. Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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While I can't say it is any faster I don't find it any slower. Now if I add in the time I lose dropping half of the rounds when I open the magazine it might be quicker.  Like I said I unload from the top even if I have a floorplate just my preference. I can see pro and cons both ways. I do it only to drop weight. If someone wants it for looks. Hey go for it. Life is too short to not have your gun look the way you want.As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Mike, It took me a minute to think where I'd heard that name before, that's Z1R from these forums. What I've seen of his work here looks very good and his knowledge of mausers is outstanding. I'm sure he'll do a bang up job for you! Be sure to post pics when he is done. | |||
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Yes, Mike McCabe (z1r) does some amazing work. He just finished building a Husqvarna 1640 barreled action for me. It's going to be a very nice rifle. The funny thing is about the time he finished James Anderson (gunmaker) finished his duplicator. I love it when a plan comes together. I sent the pattern to James, but he wasn't impressed with my pattern making skills so, I sent him the barreled action so he could tweak it. I wanted to post some pictures of Mikes work, but he said wait till I have a stock for it so it would look like something. Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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Tc1, Said you dont mind that reduced depth bottom metal.Hers what it looks like assembled..and blind version for comparison of course . | |||
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I'm still like'n the floorplate version on the bottom one. I bet that short bolt handle isn't any fun though. All the others just don't do it for me. While they all say custom and are quality rifles, none of them say classic and the reduced magazine capacity is an answer in search of a problem IMHO. All of them sacrifice their classic lines for what? so they can hold fewer rounds? If I wanted a light weight rifle I would probably start with a different action. If you do the math the real world numbers aren't going to be any where near what's been stated on this thread, maybe 6-7 oz tops. For me to commision such a rifle I would have to be looking for a reason to build another custom rifle and already have every other custom I ever wanted. (It'll never happen for me )Actually, you could just wrap this one up and call it a sell Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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That Billeb never fails to soooth&delight  | |||
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