Does anybody truly know how SS stacks up against CM in the actual pressure test? Which one is truly stronger? Just like to know the facts.

t.o.

That's kinda tough to answer. Each one can be doctored to suit most any need these days. Producing steel be it stainless or chrome moly or their various offsprings is kind of like cooking. You add different ingredients in different proportions to get a desired outcome. If your needs are more towards "corrosion resistance", then you need to increase the properties that are less prone to rust. Suffice it to say, if it is used in the manufacture of weapons in todays times, then either one is more than sufficient to handle the pressures they will be called upon to handle for it's particular purpose. Yes sir, that is a tough question to give an outright answer to.

Malm

t.o.--

"Stength" of an action is determined more by design than by metallurgy. It's a moot point.

I don't like stainless steel in action parts at all. SS has a "gummy" feel to it and galls very easily. It can never been as friction free as CM.....and CM is second choice to case hardened mild steel that's rated at about 25% the tensil strength of CM or SS...

So you see, the metal "strength" makes little difference.

Too add to JBelks comments... in 4130 and 4140 both will have a greater T and Yield strength than 410 or 416F stainless. Depending on how you heat treat them one will be just as hard or less then the other. Stainless does gall, and sometimes bad... especially the "super strong" percipitation hardened stainless(s) like 17-4, used in Freedom arms revolvers. 416 is the original free machining stainless that has reduced galling properties, though still galls. Ways you can reduce galling is by useing dissimlar metals (Cr-Mo bolt in stainless action), use antiseize compounds in part of lubrication, or just use Cr-Mo, which would be more wear resistant then 416. . As for barrels... if you shoot enough rounds to worry about buying a new barrel, then you obviously will have enough money to buy a new brl, whereas those who constantly worry about which steel will wear out in a barrel faster, need not worry as they usually dont shoot enough to get to that point. Barrels are bearing and bearings are meant to be thrown out... end of story. As to actions... Most manufactures have built rifles strong enough to go where you should never be. I find this bickering about which action is stronger funny because, from an engineering standpoint everyone of them can fail. Flaws and defects, in steel, and manufacturing process control will likley be the case in our current line-up of modern rifles, not which weatherby,win,rem is stronger.

A big amen to JBelk and Smallfry.

The use of stainless in firearms almost has the smell of a "FAD." It seemed like a cool idea at first but as time has worn on I question whether there was ever any real value to it other than appearance.

It's about as meaningful as blackwall or whitewall tires.

Pecos45---

Ain't it the TRUTH!!

I hear these guys talking about not taking a blued gun outside because of possible instant and debilitation rust and corrosion, and discussions about "I *have* to have a plastic POS stock because I'm going to hunt outside and it might rain....".

Have people never seen the pictures of GIs and Marines wading ashore with nothing but chrome-moly guns?.........and spending days at a time depending on those same guns to save their (and our) hides?? SHEESH!

Get a grip folks. The gunwriters have too tight a hold on that ring through your nose.

Stainless steel pistols sell well. While cars are made from steel for the most part the steel is painted or plated. I never understood why guns were not coated so as to be rust resistant.

Every day that I hunted big game this year it has snowed or there has been snow falling on the gun from trees (and in my case the gun and I fell in the snow). So I got home yesterday with my Ithaka 37 and it's soaked.

I have had SS barrels on many rifles and I think they last longer. Most target and bench shooters want SS barrels.

I am going to buy SS rifles as much as I can. I like them. It's about time they became available.

Don wrote: "I never understood why guns were not coated so as to be rust resistant."

Ever hear of electroless nickle plating. I believe this is even offered in a matte black finish... Electroless nickel and chrome moly, hmmmm.

Malm

The rust issue... to me is kinda funny. Strictly speaking... all stainless can/will rust. 416F will "rust more"(if you can call it that) than the austenitic stainless steels (300 series), and stainless steels like 420 and 440C (knife blades). I have never had a stainless gun "rust" but nor have I had a Cr-Mo rust that has been given the same care. I have neglected one shotgun that lived in my truck and it rusted some, but then again it was a mossberg and was probably pissed on by its quality control before it left the factory (no big loss). I thought my brother took good care of his firearms but his stainless M66 S&W has rust all over it.
Take care
smallfry

So stainless steel galls, what actually is galling and if stainless galls one would be better off buying Chrome Molly actions is this a correct assumption

Krieger's website has some interesting info on this subject in their FAQ section.

Malm,

I am sure you understood my comment asks why the factories did not make rust resistant guns. Of course I have heard of electroless nickel, black chrome, paint and now plastic coatings.

Rust is a problem. Maybe stainless is not the best answer but little has been done to date about the rust. It's up to the factories to do it. I am not going to have all of my guns plated! Not after the fact. There are tolerances involved and cost.

Don,

I didn't mean to infere you didn't know about plating, I mentioned this merely as another option that is available to shooters, an option I haven't seen mentioned yet... while this is not something you might be interested in, perhaps others would be. As far as gun companies go, manufactures aren't going to produce weapons that don't wear out... It is not in their best interest, or it is too costly, to produce a product that is resistant to the elements. They have to sell service, it's job security.

By the way, I have seen some rather sharp looking and quite accurate rifles that had been plated...

Belk, set your clock ahead! during my tour with the Marines, I swam to shore, I crashed through the waves and I dragged my dick through the sand with my best friend, a weapon comprised of Aluminum, Plastic, Crome Moly and plating. Ah yes, there is nothing quite like the sound of plastic hitting a rock.

Malm

Getting back to the original question....The question of whether SS or CrMo is a stronger material is a moot point when it comes to rifle and barrel strength. More important is action design followed by manufacturing processes (Like heat treating, stress relief etc) and tolerances. Furthermore, most actions are purposely overengineered to withstand pressures exceeding 200% of the original design limitations...(that doesn't give you license to go out and routinely ignore max load limitations etc). Wear resistance would, in my mind be a bigger concern since I HAVE been know to shoot out more than a few barrels in my time.

Could someone explain galling, what is it and how is it detrimental to ones rifle ??

PC--

Galling is pressure welding of metals that sticks two surfaces together and tear one or both of them when broken loose. It scars and gouges the surface when it happens.

It usually happens on the cocking cam, extractor cam or locking lugs. It can ruin a gun.

A agree with the use of copper-based anti-sieze as a preliminary lube and then a dab of STP oil treatment or moly-based grease as maintenence.

So Mr. Belk when it is all said and done the chrome moly action is better ??

This goes against what I originally thought about stainless actions.

PC--

"Better" depends on what you expect out of an action.

I have quite a few rifles that have had multiple barrels installed, shot out, and replaced. The actions are still good...in fact better than currently available actions.

I'm seeing SS actions now that're showing marked signs of wear and haven't yet worn out one barrel.

In descending order of desireability TO ME is--

Case hardened mild steel and hand lapped. ('98Krag, pre-24 M-98, Mannlichers, Double heat-treat 1903s, etc)

Second choice is through hardened alloy fitted after heat treat. (pre-war M-70, commercial M-98, Rhihimakii, etc.)

Third is other alloy actions. (M-721/722, Sako, Ruger, etc)

Fourth would be the stainless guns with 400 series machined instead of cast first, then investment cast SS at the bottom.

SS actions don't need as much care outside but MUCH MORE care inside.

Mr.Belk What type of steel are the CZ 550 actions made from (In know there not stainless) ??

Reading your thoughts of late has changed my way of thinking a little, I am begginning to think that stainless actions might not be so great, probaly better are chrome moly actions mated to a stainless barrel.

Thanks Mr.Belk for answering my mundane questions