I just took in a large pile of sadness to be appraised for an insurance report. They were subjected to enough heat to melt part of the aluminum frame on a shotgun. There is a Dakota Arms custom and other customs built on Mauser Kar 98 actions. My question is: Can the actions and bolts be salvaged via re-heat treat? The barrels and other metal is scrap from the fire and exposure to the Michigan winter for several weeks.

Should be able to, as long as the fire didn't warp them beyond practicality.

Same as annealing a reciver to dead-soft and taking it back.

If anyone is going to have an idea without seeing them first hand it would be the folks at Blanchard's or PacMet. I would be talking with them. I had some come in a few years back that the steel had been "burned" to the point of "not worth the effort". But the metallurgists had to see them up close and personal first.

I think there was a seller here a few months ago that had, I believe, a Winchester M70 for sale that had been fire damaged. You might try and find that thread and contact them and see what they had to have done.

I'm pretty sure he just denied that it went through a fire and decided the world hated him. Now he cyber harasses everyone that questions him.

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I'm pretty sure he just denied that it went through a fire and decided the world hated him. Now he cyber harasses everyone that questions him.

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Originally posted by Stokes:
I'm pretty sure he just denied that it went through a fire and decided the world hated him. Now he cyber harasses everyone that questions him.

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My question is: Can the actions and bolts be salvaged via re-heat treat? The barrels and other metal is scrap from the fire and exposure to the Michigan winter for several weeks.

Since the barrels are deemed to be scrap and one can assume the stocks are destroyed as well.....and all the springs of the bolt and action are damaged, any hardness that was formerly in the metal has been drawn out, potential pitting of the raceways and other metal surfaces....

You didn't mention condition of bottom metal....

One can secure "new" milsurp actions for $200 each (and less at times) it sure makes me wonder why one would risk good money after bad....and ask yourself this question.....would you want to own and shoot these actions knowing they had been through a fire?......would you insure them against liability if you was an insurance company...?

FWIW.....I'd never buy a rifle if I knew the action had been through a fire!.....not when I can buy a fully functional Rem 700 or M-70 off the used racks in marvelous condition for $400 or there abouts.

If the bottom metal isn't pitted from the fire then the action probably isn't either and possibly they could be salvaged by professional reheattreating. PM me for Jim's email address at Pacmet if you want his email address or find their website and call him for advice....

I'd love to know what he says.....

For myself.....I'd never shoot them and would find it seriously unethical to sell them....they belong in the scrap pile with the rest of the gun metal.

Possibly the bottom metal can be salvaged as there's no safety risk in that.

Tahe steel bottom metals are simply surface rusty. The aluminum bottom metals are partially melted. The bores show up as "almost dark" after exercise with bore brushes and solvent.
Sadness increased when I found an Enders 28 ga. SxS in the pile.

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The aluminum bottom metals are partially melted

Aluminum melts at around 1260F. I'm sorry but I'm with vapodog. I'd start fresh.

If you are placing a value for insurance the
present value is what ever a scrap iron dealer will give. Why try to screw the owner?.

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Originally posted by hawkins:
Why try to screw the owner?.

That is quite a conclusion to draw from this thread.

The man is filling out an insurance report
any value will be subtracted from the recovery
payment. that's why he is asking about restoration.

Unfortunately, I've been through this before. I was a young man at the time and had no customs or high dollar rifles. Even then the adjustor insisted these rifles be repaired and not replaced. After submitting an estimate from a gunsmith of what it would cost to make them right again they agreed to replace them.

When they handed me another check to cover the cost I asked him where I was supposed to take the chared up rifles that now belonged to him. He said "destroy and dispose." Then added "they are still your guns." The gunsmith that gave me the estimate took them in trade for his time.

Like the others have stated, I wouldn't want to use a house fire burnt action for anything.

Terry

Al alloys melt somewhere about 1000F. Wood fires can be around 1500 F .At those temperatures I'd say destroy. Too many bad possibilities. Under 900 F some parts may be salvageable if HT'd though I'd scrap springs and firing pins.Any scale on steel parts is a bad sign , just discoloration is ok.If you decide to save it ,after rework give it serious testing including proof loads and a letter to the owner that gun was reworked by request of the owner.

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The man is filling out an insurance report
any value will be subtracted from the recovery
payment. that's why he is asking about restoration.

How do you give a accurate estimate of the loss without addressing if the actions are a total loss. Seems to me he is simply do his job.

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Originally posted by hawkins:
The man is filling out an insurance report
any value will be subtracted from the recovery
payment. that's why he is asking about restoration.

No it's not. That is not how it works. And even if it was how is that a rip-off? Heck for all you know he has been hired by the owner to protect his interest.

The insurance company owes to to make the policy holder whole. They have the right to take the least costly, to them, route as per the terms of the policy. To determine what must be done you first have to know where you are; hence an appraisal. If it is determined that it's less costly to replace then the salvage value is irrelevant with respect to payment per policy terms. You don't determine that fair market value, pre-loss, was X and pay out X-salvage value.

Most likely he has simply been asked to give his opinion as to restoration possibilities/costs and actual value of the firearms in their pre-loss condition.

Further note: Unless the insured has purchased a rider or firearms specific insurance he almost certainly will exceed policy limits to such a degree the insurance company will cash him out and he is left to restore/replace on his own.

He did not ask about pre-loss value did he?.
No he is trying to fond the possibility of repair to minimize payout. The guns are trash
and he is trying to increase their value.

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No he is trying to fond the possibility of repair to minimize payout. The guns are trash
and he is trying to increase their value.

He simply asked if they were trash. What is wrong with asking for others opinions? Just becasue someone asks a question doesn't mean he is trying to rip someon off.

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Originally posted by hawkins:
He did not ask about pre-loss value did he?.
No he is trying to fond the possibility of repair to minimize payout. The guns are trash
and he is trying to increase their value.

Perhaps he didn't ask about pre-loss value because he already knows?


Stop digging.

I am a gunsmith, not a metallurgist. The response with the melting temp of AL give me what I was looking for. If the firearm was safely repairable, I would make that option known to both the customer, and the insurance adjuster. A few of the firearms had great sentimental value to the owner and I assured him that I would make every effort in his behalf to repair what was repairable. The man had lost all, except his family and his barns. Comments regarding "screwing the owner" have no place in a public forum unless the writer has first-hand knowledge of such practice. In my case, he aint got a leg to stand on. References on request. My thanks for the desired, educated information, and those who provided it.
This issue is closed.

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Further note: Unless the insured has purchased a rider or firearms specific insurance he almost certainly will exceed policy limits to such a degree the insurance company will cash him out and he is left to restore/replace on his own.

Not necessarily. In most homeowners insurance policies, the limits on guns are for theft only, typically, a limit of $2,500 for ALL guns and their attachments i.e. scopes, ring/bases and slings. With a fire, the value of all the damaged guns get rolled into the Personal Property Limits of the policy.

It's a good idea to record each gun's make, model, caliber and serial number, plus the attachments, and store the information off-site.

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Originally posted by k-22hornet:
Not necessarily. In most homeowners insurance policies, the limits on guns are for theft only, typically, a limit of $2,500 for ALL guns and their attachments i.e. scopes, ring/bases and slings. With a fire, the value of all the damaged guns get rolled into the Personal Property Limits of the policy.

I didn't know that and you appear to be correct.

My Allstate agent says it is that way in their policy. My State Farm agent says their policy is the same.

I would caution people; that most people under estimate the value of their personal contents and in the case of a total loss run up against policy limits, typically 70-75% of insured value of the house. Point is that if you have a large dollar amount of firearms you could still find yourself under-insured.

Either way think you for pointing it out.

What gunsmith in his right mind would want the liability associated with refurbishing a bunch of burned over rifles? It sounds like a good way to needlessly complicate the rest of your life.

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Originally posted by Stokes:
I'm pretty sure he just denied that it went through a fire and decided the world hated him. Now he cyber harasses everyone that questions him.

I think I know that guy.

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Originally posted by Jim Kobe:

quote:

Originally posted by Stokes:
I'm pretty sure he just denied that it went through a fire and decided the world hated him. Now he cyber harasses everyone that questions him.

I think I know that guy.

Remember 'ol blue?