My turn to ask for help. My 338 Mag barrel appears to be seriously fouled.

In looking in teh muzzle, I can see the copper on the rifling.

I soaked it last night in # 9 and Kroil, then brushed it out over and over, but can't get rid of the copper.

Now what?

[ 12-01-2003, 22:37: Message edited by: Terry Blauwkamp ]

Well, first, make sure that what you're looking at is copper fouling. Are your patches still coming out colored? If it's been a long time since that last time it was cleaned one night may not be enough. Sometimes it takes 2 or 3 days to get my 338/378 clean, but that's with lots of "sitting" time which is necessary for the solvent to break down the copper etc. Basically I'll run a wet patch down the barrel and leave it for a few hours or over night, then after letting it sit I'll run some clean patches through, and repeat the process for a couple of days until it's done. I would guess though that you just need to keep working at it... that, and make sure that what you're looking at is copper and not something else, like rust or barrel pitting or something like that (heaven forbid it's something bad like that).

Sweets 7.62 bore solvent and a cloths-pin for your nose It works great, but it stinks Go ahead and buy another bore brush too, the Sweets is gonna eat that along with the copper fouling.

After you're finished, clean the bore again with a regular cleaner and then oil the bore to neutralize the Sweets. It's amonia based and will eat the barrel if not used properly

Terry

Run a couple of patches soaked with CR-10 through the barrel. Allow to sit for 5-10 minutes. Run brush through bore 5-10 times. Run a couple more saturated patches through the bore. Allow to sit again. Run dry patches through bore until dry. Repeat if fouling persists. A word of caution: NEVER allow CR-10 to sit in bore for more than 15 minutes. I treat the cleaned barrel with a teflon based lube like Rem Oil or a light coating of Break Free. Good luck, hope this helps; it has never failed me.

The Butch's and Montana X-treme are probably the best "all purpose" solvents on the market.
The Sweet's is probably the best copper remover.
Wipe Out is gaining multitudes of fans - but i haven�t tried it (yet ?)

Both Butch's and Montana have ammonia and work really well for copper fouling. I use the solvents as follows : Butch's or Montana for everyday cleaning and Sweet's every 100 rounds or so to stay on top of any heavy fouling problems.

BTW, if using any of�the mentioned solvents, forget about copper brushes (copper remover will act also on them !!), just use a nylon brush or even a cotton patch

As long as you use the solvents as directed, there is no cause for alarm. Metal etching occurs when ammonia based products evaporate. This will only occur when solvents are used for a prolonged period of time.

You should soak the Sweet's in your barrel about 15 minutes to work effectively (stick to its instructions). Then, wipe your barrel dry and wet a few patches of Butch's or Montana back down the bore to remove Sweet's and dry the barrel again. These solvents contain oil based ammonia as opposed to water based ammonia that Sweet's is. Lastly, apply a light coat of gun oil to the barrel for storage.

Hope this helps you out.

Screw the other copper solvents! Wipe-out and 24 hours is all you need. Follow up with a penetrating oil (I have CLP on hand, so I use it) and a nylon brush if you want to get the remainder of the carbon (wipe-out gets a lot of it, and softens what it leaves).

I have noticed that the more times I use Wipe-out, the longer it takes for the barrel to accumulate copper. Has anyone else noticed that?

Finally, I finally came up with a "no mess" method for applying Wipeout. I was never able to keep the stuff from squirting out into the action. I finally figured out if you put an ear plug in the chamber (the ones with the flared base), and close the bolt, the problem is solved.

Close the bolt, squirt about a second, put finger over muzzle for 30 seconds, and go have a nice glass of Wild Turkey. HTH, Dutch.

Terry,

I agree, use Wipe-Out. I use it all the time now.

If for some reason Wipe-Out doesn't work use some Sweets or Barnes (they know all about copper fouling) solvents. One is a bit thicker than the other, (and I can't remember which) but they both to a superior job.

I'd use a nylon brush because :

One: For the above mentioned fact that the copper solvent will eat the bronze brush.

Two: Because I can't ever tell when I'm finished cleaing, due to the blue on the patches from the brushes.

Besure to follow up the solvents with some other non-ammonia cleaners and don't let the ammonia solvents stay in the bore for more that several minutes.

But try the wipe-out. I'll bet it'll work for you.

Take Care,

-Steve

Terry,
I can only speak from my experience with Sweets. It's the best I have used. Just follow the instructions.

It's gooy and it gets the job done!
I have better things to do than to have to wait on my bore copper solvent to work!

I hear Wipeout is good, I haven't tried it.

Rusty
We bnad of brothers!

Terry,

I went to one of Kenny Jarrett's seminars on barrel cleaning, and he recommends using Sweet's for the copper and Shooters Choice for the rest of the crud.

I have been using his method since, and it keeps things under control.

jim

Ditto on the Wipeout. I used it to clean up a .375 H&H that had too many Barnes X bullets run through it.

Put me in the column for Wipe Out. I bought a couple of cans a few years ago and used one can to treat EVERY barrel I had. Two complete soaks for all of them Some needed two, some did not. If blue really does indicate jacket material, then the cleaning process will tell one when to quit. The blue may persist for 3 cleanings on some rough old barrels!

I have 5 barrels and 2 rifles soaking since yesterday and will clean them tonight. Overnight is THE way to go. Shoot it full of foam, sit it flat and come back the next day.
Let the foam do the work.
Hate to run out as the shippin was almost as much as the Wipe Out as I remember it!

Maybe I should get a case of it and see if I can talk the local dealer into taking most of it for his sales!

If one has a barrel that is rough enough to foul heavily, then they may want to consider firelapping.

We did the first serious firelapping job on a Ruger 338 Mag. It had a rough spot that would fill with jacket material quickly. 38 bullets (all I had cast up)shot at very low velocity using our choice of "abrasive" coating the bearing surface and as the lube in the lube groove and the barrel QUIT stipping jacket material. The last ten lead bullets shot into less than an inch at 50 yards to boot! Too bad we did not think of shooting all into a composite target of grouping in groups of 10. The one case used to do this was sure shiny by the time we finished.

Took a few more rounds to remove a rough spot in the barrel of my Super Redhawk.

LouisB

[ 12-02-2003, 05:05: Message edited by: TCLouis ]

Terry,
I haven't used Wipeout, so I can't comment on it. I use nothing but Butch's Bore Shine on my custom barrels, but factory barrels are not hand lapped and tend to copper foul quite a bit more. Although it sounds like this Wipeout works wonders, I can't imagine anything removing copper any better than Sweet's 7.62.

I always start with Hoppes, though. The carbon fouling needs to be removed before I worry about severe copper fouling underneath. I always start with Hoppes #9 on a loose patch on a loop and let it soak a minute, and follow it with a patched jag wet with Hoppes to push out the crud, followed by a bronze brush wet with Hoppes. Wet and dry patch it out until the carbon fouling is not an issue. Now I'm ready for the copper.

I soak the bore with Sweet's with a loose patch on a loop and let it stand for about 10 minutes. Let the solvent do the work. Then I use a nylon brush wet with Sweet's to scrub out the copper. Wet patch on a jag to clean barrel followed with dry patch. Wet another patch and follow with a dry patch. If there's blue on the dry patch, I have more work to do.

Sometimes, simply repeating the above process works, but other times, I need to reach for the JB Non-Imbedding Bore Compound on a patch wrapped around a brush. If the bore is rough to beging with (probably wht's causing the copper fouling to begin with) this may be the best route. Good luck.

I like KG Barrel care products. They do not use chemicals that can etch or attack barrel steels. It is fast. It is not agressive like JB. The barrels come out truly clean. Here is the link.
KG Barrel Cleaning Products

I've had good luck with the Foul Out II system. Follow the instructions!

To you fellows praising "Sweets", I used to go through two bottles a year, and more than a dozen brushes per caliber.

If you asked me this six months ago, I'd be saying "Sweets" myself, loudly, but not now, I've seen the light!

Do yourself a favor, try Wipe-Out, you'll be mad at yourself for doing it the hard way all this time.

Wipe-Out does not seem to be available around my location, so I have not tried it.

Kenny Jarrrett's method is to use the Sweets and Shooters Choice in combination: the Sweet's is used with patches, so it does not have a chance to eat the bore brushes. The brushing the bore is with the Shooters Choice, which does not eat brushes.

jim

Remember, visible copper coloring on the lands is not neccessarily "fouled". 1 round in a clean barrel will put that copper color right back. It's fouled when the accuracy falls off noticeable say 3/4 MOA becomes a 1.75MOA load. I have experienced the same thing, particularly in my Winchester 416 barrel. Have not tried the Wipe-out stuff but it sure gets a lot of praise. I use Butches bore shine and patience. Brush and patch out the powder fouling then run a wet patch and have dinner. After dinner go run 2 more wet patches, before turning in for the evening, 2 more wet patches. After Breakfast, at luunch, before and after dinner for 2 or 3 days. I only do this routine when going from regular bullets to X-bullets, any other time its overkill.

[ 12-02-2003, 23:02: Message edited by: KevinNY ]

First, my experience has been that button rifled,.338's copper foul worse than other calibers and Chrome moly .338's fould worse than SS barrels. Cut rifled .338's seem much better The best way to get rid of it is to JB the barrel then use sweets and Butches bore shine. If the fouling effects accuracy then JB away, if not clean normally.-Rob

I have had very good results with Montana Extreme. ALso, you shouldn't use teflon in your barrels because a corrosive gas (flourine?)is given off with the heat of firing.