Have a look, the finishing touch for your custom rifle









[ 11-14-2003, 05:33: Message edited by: Michael S. ]

They look great. Did you build them from scratch?

Okay guys, here's the deal. I have a customer who needs some rings for a couple of vintage Mauser sporter's, so.....I have done the CNC program and proto-typing work in order to build them. However I would like to make a limited run of enough size so that both he and I would feel better about the cost.

I have decided to offer the ring blanks with the hook area uncut , but the rest of the ring finished and in the white. In order to make it easier to finish the hooks, the tooling fixture will also be available for purchase. The rings can be had in 3 heights up to tall which will clear the original flag safety. The rings screw precisely into the jig and are perfectly centered for machining the hook extensions.

Ring blank cost, all three heights - $155.00
Machining fixture - $45.00

This will be a limited run and I probably will not do this again for several years. Please contact me by e-mail thru the forum if you are interested.

Thanks, Michael S.

Michael S.

What is the diameter of the rings, please? One inch? 30mm?

Where is the front ring supposed to hold the scope? In the bell? In the tube?

Thanks,

montero

montero,

The rings pictured are 1" diameter. I had not planned to make any in 30mm as I was not sure of the market. If there is enough requests I will look at it.

These rings fit on the tube body itself and not on the lens diameter or bell.

Michael S.

BTT

I am somehow familiar with claw mounts and had never seen the front ring holding the scope in the tube.

Allways, always saw them in the bell, except on those scopes with no bell, leupolds 1 3/4 - 5, for example.

montero

Montero

These rings are patterned after an original set that came from FN. The firearm was an FN Safari Grade Mauser in .30-06. The rifle and mounts are 100% original package bought by a gentleman I know who was stationed in Europe after WWII. Even the rings and bases have the FN stamp.

Michael S.

That is some fine work, I'm empressed what can be done with CNC. I'm sure that there would be a lot of interest from European Gunsmiths, as those sort of mounts are popular there. I have and old Manlicher Schoenaur that has Claw mounts. When I had NECG fit a new set of rings for a 15. to 5 leupold , it set me back a close to 600 dollars just for the rings. Its all the hand fitting that goes into it.

BTT

Michael,
Nice work! If I understand this correctly this is just for the rings...where does one find the matching bases as pictured - NECG? ...or did I miss something?

Thanks for sharing this with us.
Jeff P

iam very interested,but would like more detail.i have a client that would buy at least 6 pair, and know that more folks would go for them. give more detail on the bases.

I too am interested. What make bases are in the photo?

Jeff P

You are correct, this is just for the rings. I had originally posted this project several months ago as a ring and base combination, but I could not get enough interest in doing both. I did get some interest from people who owned firearms which needed rings but no bases. ( drillings, early mauser sporters, etc.)
I decided to go back and offer rings only at that time. And those bases are mine, not NECG. If I can get enough interest, I will be happy to offer the package again.

I am interested in both! I should have an answer this week from a gunsmith friend on how many he wants to order. We will probably buy at least 4 sets.
Jason

This is for all of you who ask for the claw mount rings and base sets. I currently working on an estimate for the complete package price. I do have one other question however, is there a need for any other base platform except an FN or 98 Mauser?

I will get in touch with all of those who posted as well as those who e-mailed me.

Thanks
Michael S.

Maybe mrc and 550cz

Mike,
you better get these prices out in the open. Both rings and bases.....

I know several gunsmiths who would be interested.
When you do please visit my homepage and send me a mail with pricing etc

you will find a link to my e-mail at the bottom of the page.

Nice work !!!!

I liked to see them for a Weatherby Mk-5 action

Well guys, I have made it back to the keyboard. It has been deer season here in Az. And hardly anyone took venison home with them. The important thing is that I have completed pricing the claw mounts and rings and bases!!

I am offering this in a way that should fit almost anything! One option is exactly as pictured for FN's and Mauser 98's. The other options are unfinished ring blanks (the hook area) and uncontoured bases (the receiver contact). This should allow fitting to any receiver contour and most drillings also. You can also mix and match any way that is needed. Extra ring sets, different heights, etc.

These will require fitting by a gunsmith or an experienced amateur. It is impossible to do these as a drop-in due to receiver variations.

Semi-fit sets for FN or 98 $450.00
Blank sets (unfinshed) $435.00

Semi-fit bases for FN or 98 $330.00
Blank bases (unfinished) $325.00
Semi-fit rings for FN or 98 $120.00
Blank rings (unfinished) $110.00

The rings are available in 3 different heights up to .720" which should clear the original flag saftey on a 98.

Michael Scherz
gilagunwks@aol.com
(928) 783-3850
% Mesa Sports Shop
1314 So. Fourth Ave.
Yuma, Az 85364

[ 11-13-2003, 05:03: Message edited by: Michael S. ]

The idea that such fine mounts could be found for the majority of bolt-action rifles is very appealing. If these really become popular, who knows what the future might hold for these mounts. Most Americans don't use claw mounts because they are not aware that they even exist! Every American hunter to whom I have shown my old J.P. Sauer double, and demonstrated the claw mounts, were amazed! To a man, none had ever seen such a great mount! Considering what you get for your money, they are NOT EXPENSIVE!!

Gentlemen,

I had an inquiry today about my rings that I have decided to answer here to help others.

If you are looking for a custom ring height or an unusual mounting attachment configuration, it can probably be created from my ring blank sets. The tallest one has a shank that is almost .750" high. That should let you create any style of mounting or height of ring that you could wish.

These rings and base sets are also machined from a tool quality steel that has a tensile and yield strength of over 120,000 p.s.i. as well as a hardness of 32 Rockwell. These are not made from soft 12L14 like Leopold or Redfield type systems.

Michael S.

Michael, please enlighten me. I seem to remember seeing these types of mounts with the hook in the front base and the spring loaded latch in the rear base. Looking at the pictures of your bases they seem to be the other way around (higher base on the bridge). It seems to me that the hooks need to point forward because of the recoil wanting to move the rings forward. I can see that one would need a lot of ring height if the hook was on the front ring, for it to detach, but then all these European mounts seemed to be on the high side.

I would think that the hook part of the rings and its base could not tolerate any wear for it to stay tight. If the ring with the hook was on the front and it did wear a little, all you would have to do is loosen the ring on the scope and push it forward to eliminate any forward and up and down movement, and then retighten the screws holding the scope. With the hook at the front each ring would be absorbing an equal amount of recoil force. With the hook part in the back base, one could still take up any wear the same way but now the front ring would be absorbing all the recoil force.

Hart

I once had an early 50s vintage commercial CZ/Brno Mannlicher style carbine in 6.5X57 that came with mounts very much like the ones shown here. They did hold the tube and the rear mount had a small square shank on the side, where you could put a wrench for windage which was not in the scope.

Several times I tested these mounts for their return to zero capability. I would shoot a five shot group, then shoot another removing the scope between each shot. There was zero difference in the group sizes.

Those mounts differ from those shown in that the front base went into a huge dovetail cut in the top of the receiver. That always scared me a little.

I will post details this evening.

[ 11-17-2003, 04:49: Message edited by: Michael S. ]

I'll second Hart as to the F/R base location as I always see them mounted with latch in the rear, as shown on my FN-Browning O/U rifle :


[ 11-18-2003, 13:31: Message edited by: Andr� Mertens ]

The Heym I have has Suhler claw mounts, and the J.P. Sauer has Sauer claw mounts. In both cases, the latch mechanism is in the REAR bases! Is there an advantage to reversing this arrangement?

[ 11-17-2003, 18:49: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

It's mounted in the reverse way hook in the front latch in the rear , I agree with Hart and Andr�

Daniel

If the front bell of the scope is close to the barrel as in a low mounted scope you could not tip the scope enough to release it. I do not know how high the latch end has to be lifted to disengage the claw.

Hart

[ 11-18-2003, 05:32: Message edited by: Michael S. ]

Hart
As Andre Mertens post shows the scope has no objective bell on the scope so you can first insert the objective end (front) in first and lock the eye piece in (rear).

Since this rifle is a 30-06 a scope could be used with a higher magnification and the scope could have a bell on it which would not allow you to insert that end first. You would be forced to insert the eyepiece first (rear) and rotate the scope down and lock the (front) end.

Micheal is correct and eldeguello seems to be verifying.
RNS

RNS, I realize that a low mounted scope with a belled objective has to have the claw on the bridge, but is the claw facing the right direction to absorb the force of recoil. I think it is a much more secure mount with the claw forward.

The way I read it, Eldeguello stated that the latch (spring loaded) was at the rear.

Hart

[ 11-18-2003, 20:33: Message edited by: hart ]

Hart


You are asking if the claw is better facing forward for recoil or having the curve facing forward to handle recoil.

RNS

RNS
Yes, that is what I am asking.

Hart

hart, andre, and others

First some history of this project. These bases and rings were copied fron a FN Safari Grade that was purchased in Europe post WWII. The bases and rings are also stamped FN. This rifle had never been apart.I know the original owner, he is now 83.

1) I think most will realize that you cannot have a 44mm objective that extends 2 1/2" or more in front of the pivot point go from front to back (traditional way) into a base without having an extremely tall ring. That is why most double rifles and drillings have the front ring mounted on the objective bell. This would require an expensive barrel mount on your bolt action plus a custom ring. So, why not pivot from the back where there is clearance available for your scope to go below bore level? This point causes so much confusion that I have considered making a drawing to illustrate the geometry involved.

2) The latching hook position whether on the front or rear bridge is immaterial as far as recoil is concerned. This is true as long as the hooks are facing to the rear. The straight edge backs against the base for recoil.

3) The hooking ring does not absorb as much recoil as the latching ring because of geometry. The inside of the curve does not mate 100% with the base. The inside of the bases are usually machined in a straight line, although at an angle. The hook is a curve in order to allow a pivoting motion. The point of the hook comes to rest/contact at the bottom of the incline thus stopping the pivoting motion, while the point of the incline (usually about .100" thick) comes to rest against the ring/hook juncture. The biggest recoil control comes from having a square peg fit solidly into a square hole. The .100" contact area is also available on the reverse side of the ring.

I hope that this will clear things up a bit. You should also know that even single lug claw mounts were manufactured. The only impossible combination is to have both hooks facing each other.

Michael S.

[ 11-19-2003, 09:12: Message edited by: Michael S. ]

Michael,
I am curious as to what provisions have been made to allow for wear???