As I have been fitting the Richards stocks I recently bought I have come to the conclusion that I need some gouges. Have no idea about useful sizes and shapes. What should I look for in a basic starter set of gouges?

You need a complete set of carving tools to fit any stock correctly.
You also need a set of barrel inletting tools; chisels and scrapers.
I use Millers Falls, old set, and many other custom shaped chisels and gouges. Do not get the huge ones made for carpentry; unless you are making stocks from blanks, they are way too big.
Track of the Wolf has Solingen tools; Midway has some. Not sure where to get the sets I used to get. Not Harbor Freight; they are too soft and you will be sharpening more than cutting. On line woodcraft stores have some good tools.
What was your initial plan to remove slivers of wood only .005 thick? Do not even think about a Dremel or any power tool.https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/stock-work-finishing/stock-making-hand-tools/barrel-channel-cutting-tools/barrel-bedding-tool-set-sku364700000-6796-16648.aspx

As for a plan. Don't really have one. I am just trying different things to see what might work.

The semi inletted Richards' stocks for my 95 mauser actions are very close. Even the barrel channel. The real test will come when I do the inletting for my carcano action. That stock only has a 1/2" barrel channel. I am thinking about making a cradle to hold that stock in my RF30 mill/drill to rough out most of inletting and finish up with chisels and gouges.

I have some very sharp small chisels. The blades are about 1/4" wide. They cut with hand pressure. For the barrel channel I have been using different grits of sandpaper wrapped around a socket with a 12" extension as a handle. Slow going even with 80 grit paper.

As an experiment I took an old teaspoon and made it into a gouge. Hard to get it as sharp as I would like. It will slice off a thin sliver of wood. This experiment is what led me to the conclusion I need some real gouges.

Just buy some accu-glass makes stock fitting a breeze

Belay that order!!!
Learn how to inlet correctly. HAVE a Plan! Starting off on a $200 stock without skill and a plan will result in a $200 piece of kindling. Seen it.
Forget old teaspoons.
Forget sandpaper to inlet a barrel; won't work; you will give up long before you make any real progress and will revert to the second point above.
Read how to correctly inlet a stock; if you do not, you will end up doing want PDS said, which will look atrocious.
Practice on something other than your stock; and yes you can use a mill drill to hog out excess wood.
I assume you have inletting black and are using it. If not; STOP and get some. Brownells.
Lots of good books on it. It takes patience, and skill; both learned techniques.
Or come over and I will show you.
1/4 wide chisels are too small for most inletting. More frustration.

I am well versed with epoxy. And polyester resin. I buy it by the gallon to use on my boat projects. I use mostly West System and US Composites epoxy. I read a post by Speerchucker where he thought accu glass was the same as US Composites epoxy.

The Richards stocks still require some inletting to get the action and barrel to sit down into the stock. I want a good fit around the edges so the epoxy bedding doesn't show anymore than it has to. I am trying to save the sanding dust to mix into the epoxy so the epoxy will be close to the same color as the stock.

Looking for some info on gouges.

I've done a number of stocks over the years and the single most important thing (if you're not doing this professionally) is to stop immediately when you feel yourself getting, tired, frustrated, in a hurry, whatever. That's when you make mistakes.
Same with checkering.
Patience.
Also, never do LC Smith stocks. My prejudice.
I've used files, bottoming files, scrapers, rasps, you name it.
What I've used most are Jerry Fischer scrapers. Keep them sharp and they work well.
I've got a friend who just thrashed a $500 piece of wood. His first attempt. Used a disc sander to bring the wood down to the level of the action on a Ruger #1. When he finished the metal was proud by about a 1/16 of an inch on both sides.
Be patient.
Study a little, practice and take your time. You'll do yourself proud.

I have looked for inletting black. Could not find it on either Brownells or Midway. Seems to be discontinued. I found it on one site but they wouldn't ship it to California.

I tried pencil lead. Doesn't show up very well. I have had good results so far with a red sharpe.

I have an assortment of big chisels. Have not used them for fear of inadvertently taking off a big chunk of wood.

I am going real slow at this. I have probably spent a good 20 hours so far on the first stock. The action and barrel fit to my satisfaction. Not perfect by any means but also not an atrocious hack job either. I will not be embarrassed to show the rifle to anyone. The notch for the bolt handle came out pretty good too. Still lots of finish sanding to do on the stock.

Checkering is going to be interesting. Will need lots of practice on that before I even think about checkering any of the stocks.

I have downloaded some old books on gunsmithing that I have been reading.

I am in no rush to get this done.

HArd core: this is from Gunsmithing Kinks book

COLD CREAM ''INLETTING BLACK" I have found that, the best inletting black for stock work that
I've seen yet, is plain old cold cream such as my wife tries to "get beautiful" with.
By mixing some liquid lamp black in it, it does a neat job that isn't greasy and the consistency
remains the same at either hot, or cold temperatures.
Also, never hardens in the jar or on the metal and brushes on with no effort.
Just rememlwr to clearly label the jar of cold cream you swipe from the wife,..she is not,
going to be too happy if she comes across the jar you've mixed up and tries to use it on her face! -
Bob Blackburn, Fort Worth, Texas

INLETTING "BLUE" 1 wonder whether any of the brethren have discovered Dykem "Hi-Spot Blue"
by the Dykem Co., of St. Louis, Mo. (Ed. Note:-2301 E. North 11th St., St. Louis),
for fitting actions to stocks. It is just as messy to use as any of the other spotting mediums,
but does not dry so it is not necessary to clean off when work is laid aside even for a couple of weeks.

(Note from Bob B.: A few days after getting the above, Harold was in and suggested that when the boys
write to the Dykem Company for literature they also get literature on their dye for Aluminum as he has
used it with success on the colored aluminum receivers for touching-up purposes.) • Harold Mishkin, Chicago, Illinois

INLETTING ORANGE I find that mixing vaseline and a little of your orange dye (orange 11 conc.)
together gives you the perfect stuff for fitting stocks. Not messy, comes off easy, won't rust parts...
- Skip Baker, Cowan, Tennessee

PRUSSIAN BLUE I mix Prussian Blue with some of the wife's cooking (Crisco) short-ening.
Works even better if it is left in an open container for 3 or 4 days before putting the
lid on the container for storage.
- Kexter's (gun Shop, Paducah, Kentucky

for gouges for open areas Baco handle and carbide scrapers and those ready made "stacked washer" deals

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/377/1

Here's a source.

I think the best advice I can give you is you need to learn to work with wood first. Part of that involves learning how to PROPERLY sharpen tools. Flat Chisels aren't hard to sharpen properly BUT maintaining the proper angles and learning to put on a micro-bevel etc are necessary skills. A gouge is a whole nother level of sharpening skills. I work with flintlock long rifles etc and find some wood planes indespensible when I'm shaping long forends etc. Again, sharpening a plane iron and learning how to set it are acquired skills.

Sharp chisels can do incredibly fine work but scrapers are what you need to finish with in many instances. You can make your own scrapers..some you need to buy. Again, you'll need to learn how to sharpen your scrapers as well.

None of those tools will cut well dull.

You need to learn to read the wood grain and get a feel for which way the wood fibers are running. Learn to work with the grain not against it. This sounds simplistic but it is not. There are certain places on a stock where you don't have a choice. Learn how to work around it.

As stated above...if you are tired or not very enthusiastic about working on your stock. Put it aside for when you are happy.

Steady workholding is also important. You'll need a good padded vice preferably one you can work around on at least 3 sides.

Do some simple woodworking projects before you work on a gunstock. Build a few wooden storage boxes for the shop and learn how to hand cut dovetails with a chisel. Make a few projects like a good chisel mallet watch Paul Sellers videos on Youtube about making a mallet and sharpening chisels. Pay attention to the wood...when you work wood it will tell you if your doing it wrong if you know what signs to look for...could be something as mundane as how the tool sounds...

Gunsmiths are typically not great about sharpening chisels...wookworkers are typically fanatics about it. Strike a balance there.

Here is my basic tools for stockmaking. Most were made 60 yrs ago in gunsmith school at Trinidad, Co. These were all hand forged from .85 points carbon steel and formed by hand. The gouges were made using a forming tool for the shape of the half round cutting edges with a curve shaped to keep from cutting too deep.

If you want to made your own tools go to the local pawn shop and look for older US made screw drivers. You will have a cheap start of steel to make very good stock making tools. It will need to be harden after the final shape and I use a small propane torch to harden in water. Next draw the cutting edges to light straw. Stone to a very fine edge and you have saved yourself lot of money and have fun of making your own tools.

The post at the top of the page had most of my tools shown, but the Hunt101.com went , so did the original pictures..

Next post will have several pictures of these tools used in the post at the top of Stockmaker Show and Tell.

Les Brooks, retired gunsmith

[IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/tJz79q0S/IMG-
01533.jpg[/IMG]

These may be some help for a few starting into stockmaking.

Maybe this will help you

Mr Mick; I fitted my first Richards stock on 1970 and have used many since; got 4 sitting right here now; they can be tightly fitted but like any other good job, requires skill and patience.
You will not need any glass bedding compound over and above that used for the recoil lug. So dispense with that thought and focus on tight metal to wood fit. You don't need all of Les's chisels but you get the idea. 4 basic ones will work, plus a barrel tool.

I would like to thank everyone for their suggestions.

I have gotten fairly proficient at sharpening HSS tool bits for my lathe. I have a craftsman 12x36 with a QCGB. And I have the change gears needed to cut most of the common metric threads. I also sharpen my drills when needed. One of my current metal working projects to make a drill and end mill sharpener out of an old valve grinder. Don't know how that will turn out.

While by no means am I a woodworker I have learned through the years that the direction the grain is running has a big effect on how wood cuts.

I tried dykem without success. Have not tried any of the other home remedies. Wife flew the coup decades ago and after my elderly mother passed away all of her creams, lipstick, etc got tossed out. So don't have any of that kind of stuff. The red sharpe seems to be working. I will stick with that for the time being. I might try some dye in Vaseline. I have vaseline.

I have enough chisels and keep them sharp. I have a small V shaped chisel too. What I don't have are gouges. I think that I need a 1/4", a 3/8" and a 1/2" gouge to get me started. Those dimensions are for the diameter of the gouge cutting edge. I have watched a couple of videos on sharpening gouges. That will take a little practice to get proficient at. I have a scraper. It is on the boat. I will bring home next time I am down to the boat.

I am trying to fit the action and barrel as close as possible in the stock with just enough rough areas to give some tooth for the epoxy to adhere to the stock. Plan to use just enough epoxy to fill in the voids between the action/barrel and the stock.

I might have already watched some of Paul Sellers videos. The name sounds familiar.

I have to thank Les for his excellent thread on making a stock from scratch by hand. I have read it several times and refer back to it when I have questions.

I have fitted one stock in the past. When I was in high school in the mid 60's my dad gave me a Springfield 1903A3. I got a semi inletted stock from a LGS and fitted the action to the stock. Haven't done one since then. My son-in-law has that rifle in his safe.

Again thanks for all of your suggestions and advice

Kokopelliproducts.com sells the inletting black. Guide pins and a set of hand screws come in handy. If you've got a lathe and a drill press you can make those yourself. The 'sweep' of the gouge is important. I think mine are a #9 sweep. The 'sweep' is how much curve there is to the gouge. All I have used are single bevel (cutting edge), both chisels and gouges.

Please get some real inletting black. There is no substitute for it no matter what you read. Felt tip pens won't work. There is a technique for removing the right amount of wood at and around the black marks left; It is a learned skill.
And please don't focus on filling gaps with epoxy; learn how to inlet closely and there won't be any.
Stock inletting is not "woodworking"; I can't cut a right angle on a 2x4, but I can inlet stocks.

Others who've responded are much better stock makers than me, but I thought I'd second the recommendation on the Jerry Fisher scrapers as most useful and easy to use and also recommend Three Cherries gouges, particularly for the small sizes (I think 4mm and 10mm are most useful). Chuck Grace was amazing using a wide, almost flat gouge about 5/8" wide he'd make at Trinidad (per Les's posts, using commercial screwdriver set to make the tools). I haven't found a commercial replacement like it.

Also, a friend let me try his Ramelson carving set on a stock, and the tools were sharp, the right sizes, and easy to use.

All these (except the screwdriver-based hand-make tools) are available from Brownells.

HTH,
Steve

Good point; I use my 5/8ths straight (no upward sweep; those are hard to use) gouge more than any other tool. Flat half inch next. Barrel tools (not the little scrapers), next. The two handed ones that Brownells sells.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Please get some real inletting black. There is no substitute for it no matter what you read. Felt tip pens won't work. There is a technique for removing the right amount of wood at and around the black marks left; It is a learned skill.
And please don't focus on filling gaps with epoxy; learn how to inlet closely and there won't be any.
Stock inletting is not "woodworking"; I can't cut a right angle on a 2x4, but I can inlet stocks.

You work with your hands all the time. You have a feel for it. Many people don't. My suggestion to do a few woodworking projects is simply a suggestion for someone to develop the muscle memory and feel you have from working on hundreds of guns...nothing more. And you yourself observed you've seen a lot of $200 blanks turned into kindling. Not everyone works with their hands for a living. I do some engraving and stock carving on flintlocks etc but I don't do it often enough to retain my feel for it. Before I start in on a project like that I often will spend a few evenings cutting some practice lines and scrolls on some scrap brass or steel until I get the feel back. I won't even think of touching the gun until I can make a decent (for me) pattern on some practice stock. If you do it every day for a living it would be superfluous. Just a little perspective.

Whenever I do anything. Be it a home project, working on my car, making something with my lathe, etc. I always try to do the absolute best that I can. Am I a perfectionist? No. But I do strive for excellence.

On fitting my Swede 96 to its stock there is only one place that didn't come out as well as I would have liked. A pro would spot it right off. There is about a 1/32 to 1/16 wide by 1/4" long gap on the right side of the trigger guard. A little semi circle. The trigger guard is a very tight fit. The action slips into place and doesn't move. A dollar bill will just slip between the barrel and the stock. There are some rough spots that will get filled with epoxy along with bedding the recoil lug. I am done with the inletting on this stock.

Still have lots of sanding and long boarding to get the stock ready for finish. Long boarding is a boating term where you use different lengths and stiffness of sanding boards to fair a boat hull. I have a bunch of different long boards.

The most important part of the workmanship is hidden....the inletting!

The ability to keep tools razor sharp is a good start. Scrapers must be that sharp too. Use inletting black sparingly i.e an almost transparent coating

A bang up inletting job will just naturally lead to carefully executed out side form.

If you JUST GOTTA use glass...Use it as a sealer rather than a dutchman, patch..whatever you want to call it .

So you're saying my chainsaw/acraglas method is no bueno? haha

Zeke

quote:

usposted 24 July 2021 02:08 Hide Post
The most important part of the workmanship is hidden....the inletting!

Wish folks would post more pictures of the inletting when posting pics of new/custom stocks. I’m with DW on this one .

quote:

Originally posted by mickri:
As I have been fitting the Richards stocks I recently bought I have come to the conclusion that I need some gouges. Have no idea about useful sizes and shapes. What should I look for in a basic starter set of gouges?

Recommend you find a copy of David Wesbrook's "Professional Stockmaking", subtitle "Through the Eyes of a Stockmaker". His focus is on inletting the semi-inletted stock. His photos, including tools and their use, are invaluable. As a general comment based on my personal use, try to find some crank neck gouges and chisels. Blade width maybe 1/8" to 5/8", preferably incannel. Some of the best were imported from Japan, but now those seem only to be available used. The Jerry Fisher scraper set of three is necessary. So is sharpening equipment.

quote:

Kokopelliproducts.com

Back home after being gone for a couple of weeks. Picked up a couple of gouges from a 2nd hand shop during my travels. Working on getting them sharp. Ordered some inletting black. Hopefully they will ship it to me here in California. The first place I tried wouldn't ship it to California.

You must have ordered the assault inletting black. Try the less scary low capacity inletting black.

Mickey;
I’ve used an alcohol lamp with paint thinner in it for years. Black smoke shows up well, no clean up to speak of.

I'll have to try paint thinner in one of my lamps. I tried using one of my lamps. Lamp oil barely put out any smoke. There must be something in modern lamp oil that prevents smoking.

I have inletting black on its way. I like the red sharpe that I have been using. The red color is easy to see on the walnut stock.

The inletting black has arrived. Will give it a try this afternoon.