An opportunity has presented itself and I would like some expert advise.

Due to a plant closure some equipment is available, cheap. There are two lathes I could procure and would like to know which one would be the best suited for gunsmithing.

Machine #1:

Monarch Engine Lathe, 20" swing and 48" between centers. Has 3 & 4 jaw chucks and a collet system. Steady and follow rests also. The spindle through hole appears to be about 1.5". Lathe is a 480 3 phase set-up and was built in 1940. It isn't in the best of shape, but could easily be restored as the ways are good, but the gibbs are worn. It will still hold 0.0008" - 0.001". New it was spec'd at 0.0001".

Machine #2:

Nardini, 12" swing and 30" between centers. Has 3 & 4 jaw chucks, steady and follow rests. The lathe is 220 V. The spindle through hole is about 1.375". This lathe also has a taper attachment. This lathe was made in the early 90s.

The cost is about the same for either of them. Which machine makes the most sense?

Thanks,
Axel

[ 01-29-2003, 21:09: Message edited by: Axel ]

I would probably say neither. The Monarch I would place higher on the quality scale, but the Nardini's spindle bore is smaller than what I'd be looking for. I'd like to see at least 1.5" on the spindle bore, but that's just me. If your needs don't require a larger spindle bore then you should probably consider the Nardini for the fact that the Monarch sounds like it's past it's prime, and without some considerable work, you probably wouldn't be happy with it. It' too bad that the Monarch was abused. Those are good machines, and one that is as old as that one would have made a fine piece of equipment.

Axel,

Unless you have a airplane hangar to house it in, machine #2 would better fit your needs for gun work.

Malm

Matt,

I should also say that the Monarch while a little rough is easily restoreable for me. I have several friends in the machine rebuilding end of things and they have offered their assistance if I go down this route. I am confident that we can get the ol' girl back up to 99% or better. I am just curious if she is too damned big!

Malm, the Monarch will fit in my shop, barely! The Monarch must be close to 10' long! The head stock is close to 4' long. If nothing else this machine is RIGID!

Thanks for the input guys,
Axel

Axel,

When you're making those special little screws in the #4 or #5 size or tiny bushings, and you're straining on tippy toes and ducking the jaws of your chuck to view your work, you may question your decision.


My lathe has a 13inch swing capacity and at times can be a little obnoxious when trying to view the progress while machining and threading little pieces. I sometimes have to lean way in to see things, my machine is equipped with a foot brake in case I lean too far and get tangled up in it.


One thing that might be important when choosing between the two would be availability of parts for the particular machine. Don't throw money into someting that you cannot easily get repair parts for.

Good luck,

Malm

How do you know the ways are good on the Monarch?

Malm,
Good points. I have an Atlas 6" swing lathe for small parts turning.

t_bob38, I know the ways are good as they are not damaged visibly and are flat. The flatness was determined by laying 30" long precision straight edges on the bed. We had to pull the tail stock to do it. The gibbs have been tightened up as tight as they will go and we still have a little slop. What this lathe needs is new gibbs made and fitted, as well as, having the ways stoned and possibly scraped in. The cross feed nut needs replaced as well, as it is suffering from massive backlash. Cost of the lathe is less than $500. It will cost me more to ship it than to buy it.

Axel

Pretty unusual to find a lathe with good ways and gibbs so worn that they can't be adjusted.

Axel,

Forget the precision straight edge to check the ways. Place a magnetic based indicator on the carriage and put the point of the indicator on each of the ways and watch what happens as you advance the carriage through it's full travel in both directions. Set the indicator on the apron to check the cross feed ways as well. This should tell you what you need to know.

Malm

What happened to all those lathe's in your basement? Damn them old lies just keep catching up with you don't they POSeur?



You're BS is so boring, AXEL. Why don't you at least think up a new scam and come back with a new member name to go with the 20 you already have and pretend to be a great bow hunter? Most of the guys up in bow hunting probably don't know what a liar you are. YET.

Malm,
Thanks for the tip. I have seen a variation on your method used in the past. Honestly, though the Monarch is not in that bad of shape. It looks far worse than it really is. It is BIG though. I mispoke in my earlier post the center to center distance is 60". It also weighs around 9000 pounds. I am thinking I will need to have the shop floor repoured and reinforced to support that bulk.

Thanks again,
Axel

Have you considered how you are going to power this lathe?

Axel,
Do you have any idea what it will cost you to set up your shop for 480v 3 phase?????

I thought I would use a converter. From a practically viewpoint the Nardini is a much more sensible option. I really like the Monarch though. I know with a little work and alot of shop modifications and money spent in shipping I would have a great lathe.

Thanks for the input everyone. In the end, I believe common sense will prevail.

Axel

Question with terminology? Are you saying the gibs are worn beyond adjustment?

Personally I have never bought a machine, then wished for larger machine, never wished for a smaller one! Small work on small machine may be easier, but the Monarch is the superior machine, logistics are something else. I bored a cylinder for .049 thimble /drome engine on a 120" bullard VTL Twerked like a charm.

A reply to not being able to see over(around) chuck, I borrowed wife's magnifying makeup mirror set it on back of crossslide to view small parts

A year ago I got a 1967 Clausing 5914 that was 440 VAC 3 phase.

The phaseomatic box on the side of my mill outputs 3 phase, and the coversion from 440 V to 220 V was just swapping some leads in the motor connection box per the wiring diagram.

So 440 3 phase was no big deal.
Getting the 1200 pounds off a flatbed in my driveway was a big deal.