I have a rifle being made right now and I am down to the last minute on making a finishing decision and thought I would solicit some advice...............

Anyway its an old WInchester Model 70, I have a CM barrel being finished up and its time to send to a plater.

What I was thinking about doing is a double parkerized dip. After that is done get a felt pad and something similar to Jewlers polsih to hand rub and polish. After thats done clean squeaky clean, oil, dry, then super wax job.

I haven't decided on a stock but a rimrock for starters sounds good, then get a wood one done later.

I thought one of the advantages of Parkerizing was the fact that the coating is somewhat porous and therby soaks up and keeps some oil or other rust resistor on the surface. If you hand rub and polish won't this defeat the purpose? If you want the Parkerized look but in a more resistant finish why not GunKote?

If you want a high-gloss finish, then get it polished well and have it put through a regular hot tank.

Parkerizing is a special treatment where the metal is made rough and rust resistant through pores etc. which retain lubricants. To polish off the finish after it is done defeats the purpose of having it parkerized in the first place.

In the real world, parkerizing gives you no practical advantage over regular bluing.

-Spencer

First I am talking about a military spec park. Parkerize does penentrate the metal surface shoud be .007-.008 for the first dip and a few thousand more on the second. Which should be close to .010 when finished with both dips.

The effect I am looking for is think an old M1 match rifle. Where the rifle is parkerized but is polished somewhat. I am not sure quite how to get that look.

I wasn't planning on getting agressive on the hand rubbing, actually that is the reason I was planning on doing this by hand and not carding it. Purpose in my mind is; have you noticed how parkerized tends to show rub marks when new? My thoughts were to rub this out so it won't show rub marks. I am not planning on rubbing off the park finish, lightly. and that why the felt were what I was planning.

ShopCartRacing,

I am not convinced that blue is more or as durable than a Mil Spec parkerizing.

Blueing is possible, and isn't totally discarded as an option. If I go the blue route I need to do the reciever and the barrel seperately for the best results. I really don't want to seperate the barrel and action once I get it back from the gunsmith.

Any ideas how tobetter get that old M1 look? Thats why I posted this to get some ideas, before I commit to something that is difficult to change.

I don't know exactly what you mean about the M1 but you can certainly hot blue on top of parkerizing for a blackened look.

quote:

I don't know exactly what you mean about the M1 but you can certainly hot blue on top of parkerizing for a blackened look

I am all ears clue me in.

Would you polish between Parkerizing and blueing I would think you would have to for a pretty job.

My best description of the moment it comparing it to paint. Enamel and gloss is a full high polish blue. Matt is the plain park finish. Where I am trying to get is a satin in between.

Tigger,

Tell me about the "blackened look"

To be honest I'm quoting one of the pros here on AR. There was no discussion in that detail; the point of the topic was how to get the protection of parkerizing in a dark color. Intercoat polishing wasn't discussed.

Here is some data on the older park finsishes, doesn't really get into details just adds gasoline to the fire so to speak:

"Descriptions of variations in color and shade are subjective, and the same finish may be described differently by two different people. With that in mind, original finishes have been observed which are: charcoal black, gloss black, black with a noticeable green tint, dark olive green, a light, almost translucent gray, and translucent gray with a green cast. The earliest original rifles examined are in the collection at Springfield Armory National Historic Site. These rifles, serial numbers 81,87, 79115, 100,000, 1 million, 2 million and 3 million, are in "as-new" condition. They were deemed of historical significance, and generally transferred directly from the factory to the museum shortly after manufacture. They all are of charcoal black color. Early production Winchester Ml's are of the same color. None of these rifles have been coated with Cosmoline or saturated with oil. It is interesting to note that M14 rifles were not subject to Cosmoline coating and are the same color as these early Garands.
Other Ml rifles manufactured during this era which have seen service, have been observed to be of gloss black or dark green finish. It is believed that the gloss black is primarily a result of repeated cleaning with solvent and oil-soaked rags which gave an almost polished effect to the finish. The frequently encountered, dark green Parkerized finish is believed to be primarily a result of the compounds present in the Parkerized finish chemically reacting to the Cosmoline used for corrosion prevention during long term storage. Observations of original Garands manufactured by Springfield and Winchester indicate a change in the finish color from black to a translucent gray during the late summer of 1944. The Parkerizing process used to finish Ml's of post World War 11 manufacture appears to have returned to the charcoal black finish. If the rifle has been stored in Cosmoline, a green tint may be noted.
So, what color Parkerizing is original? Most "as new" Garands are charcoal black. Original finishes of gloss black, black with a noticeable green tint, dark olive green, a light, almost translucent gray, and translucent gray with a green cast have been observed. The variables mentioned above and more than fifty years of use and storage make it impossible to give a specific answer. However, one thing is certain; the argument among collectors and aficionados will continue"

Maybe what I should do is hand rub with a oil impregnated felt pad?

I've glass beaded barrels and actions and then had them hot blued. The results looks pretty much like the Parkerized finish on my Garand, except the Garand is a lighter, more charcoal gray color. The finish will also vary depending upon the grit of the glass beads used.

My guess would be polishing is going to be the main contributor to finish, not color but the matte, gloss, semi-gloss qualities.

I don't know about bluing not being as durable as parkerizing, but a good rust blue is pretty darn durable. some of those 80 year old African guns are still looking pretty good and not rusted up. A rust blue will be less glossy than the hot because the chemicals have to "bite" into the metal during the process so the metal is usually not polished past about 320 grit.

as far as seperating them, are you talking about seperating the barrel from the action and sending to different people or just taking the barrel off the action? if it is just removing the barrel from the actiona nybody doing bluing SHOULD be prepared to do this and expect it. At least with rust blue this should be par for the course as the only way to ensure all the oil is gone fro the barrel threads so it won't ruin or damage the rusting process.

Roger Kehr does rust bluing as well as French Gray if I remember right, he can give you more info on that. Systeme98 who posts here, Thos. Burgess, is probably the most historically versed member of the forum when it comes to military arms and if I remember right from a question I asked him one time about national matches back in the day he said that he has done some work on M1's. Maybe he'll see this and respond.

Red

I called a couple of guys that do park today. Got some good information.

Both said the metal gets dropped into the tank, and cooks until the metal stops foaming or bubbling. After that stops its done, no more plating action is happenning indicated by the stop of foaming above.

Double dipping seems to have only one benefit, gets spots that need to be reworked or missed spots on the first tanking.

Color seems to get determined two ways, which depends on the steel type factored in both.

How the metal is preped is factor one. bead blasting is done first. Generally rougher blasting yeilds darker colors closer to black. A finer finish gets the green or blueish tint. Definately the fine finish is lighter.

Anyway when its fresh out of the tank it drinks oil and needs to be oil cured. THis is the next trick, different oils in the first cure impact color and the right oil can make this black.

Now hand polishing with felt and oil is next, no harm no foul cause at this point the gun is still absorbing oil, and this done with a non drying oil is better.

Then comes the part about waxing. THoughts were as long as the oil curing is done, which usually takes a couple of weeks to the other extreme of at least 6 months, it can't hurt. Nobody had tried it, but if it doesn't work out it would pretty easy to remove, as the properly cured park finish is tough.

Anyway a fine blast is what I want, I need to get the details on the types of choices on the oil impacting the colors though.

Just an update on this, I decided to fine bead blast the reciever, high polish the barrel, and hot blue this.

The park is too permanent, if I am unhappy with the blue I can always park later, but the reverse is not an option.

I also got looking at the thread with the rifle coming out of the safe, and a wood stock is a must for this project. I might do a switch stock but long term, I want wood. I also talked this over with my sons ( eventually where all my firearms are going) and neither really cared for the matte/synthetic option.

Guess the die is cast, whick actually makes me happy cause I can start figuring out some engraving embellishments.