Speaking of the last 115 years, has anybody seen a change in the role of "THE GUNSMITH."

Care to elaborate? roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Speaking of the last 115 years, has anybody seen a change in the role of "THE GUNSMITH."

Care to elaborate? roger

Nope. Though times have changed, the roll of the gunsmith hasn't. It's gotten a bit more specialized, but as far as the roll he plays, nope. Same shit, different day.

Roger

A gunsmith is MUCH more specialized today than he was when I was a kid, not to mention 115 years ago.

I still remember the first gunsmith I knew. It was right after WW II. His shop was a shack out behind his house. So cluttered with gun stuff that you could barely get in the door. But he always had time to stop and talk guns with me, even though I was just a poor kid who didn't have a dime to spend. He could do everything a gunsmith should do. From making a new front sight blade for my 22 LR to building a complete rifle, from scratch. There were no inletted stocks back then so he made his from a big block of wood. The finish took weeks, not hours. An action meant a surplus Springfield, Mauser or Krag that he could turn into a fine custom sporter. Dovetails were cut by hand with a three cornered file, and they were straight. Scope bases and rings actually lined up with the bore. Blueing meant "blueing" not blacking.

He had an apprentice who worked for him and took over the business when he retired. Neither of them died rich. But I think they were both happy. I don't think they looked at it as same $hit, different day. I'm in my 70s and I still remember both of them, and that cluttered shack.

Today? There are still a few of that kind left but not many. The work they do is probably better, I won't deny that. Hell, my lathe is probably more accurate than his was and I can probably cut a straighter chamber than he did.

Or maybe not.

JMHO

Ray

Yup, same shit, different day!

115 years ago, if there was a dispute between customer and gunsmith, instead of the court system, it would have been Colt SAA or 12 ga. coach gun to settle the issue!

Old farts still think the young ones know nothing and that all new gadgets are BS, and the young ones still think the old stuff is useless.

The question was pertaining to the "role" of the gunsmith. That role hasn't changed. The technology has certainly changed, but not the role.

Todays gunsmith, just as those of the past still has to know how to cut dovetails, whether he is using a 3 cornered file or a state-of-the-art milling machine to cut it, the role hasn't changed.

Todays gunsmith still has to know how to make and fit parts, and how to diagnose and correct problems with all the various designs of the day, and even those of 115 years past. The role hasn't changed, but gunsmiths certainly have.

FWIW, as late as 1987, before I was able to afford to purchase a milling machine, I was cutting dovetails with a 3 cornered file. No big deal, dovetails still had to be cut. Today I use a milling machine. Same role, different day.

Before I had a lathe I use to make pins, screws and firing pins with an electric drill motor and file. Today I have a lathe. Same role, different day.

I still use a propane torch, water and my eyes to heat treat certain parts. These parts still have to withstand abuse just as they did 115 years ago. More so today with the developement of more powerful ammo.

Whether the Lathe, Mill or Drill is powered by steam, belts and ceiling mounted pully's, or, is delivered through copper wires, conduit and circuit brakers, the job is the same. The only difference is the day. Same shit, different day!

quote:

Old farts still think the young ones no nothing and that all new gadgets are BS, and the young ones still think the old stuff is useless

LOL that happens in most places not just the gun shop.

Westpac

It looks like I agree and disagree with what you said.

I agree that the "role" of a gunsmith hasn't really changed. If it was Roger's intent to limit our comments to that, then this thread would have ended long ago. But I think he was after a little more.

Which is where I get to the disagree part. Sure, there are guys who can fit and chamber a barrel to Benchrest standards - but wouldn't know which end of a 3 square file to grab onto. There are others who can polish and blue an action but couldn't cut a straight chamber if their life depended on it. Those kind of things.

It sounds like you are one of those real Gunsmiths (with a capital G)reminiscent of the old days. As I said before, there aren't many of you left. Before long there won't be any of you. When that day comes, what will the "role" of a gunsmith be?

JMHO

Ray

I see what you are saying. In that aspect it appears the role of the traditional gunsmith does indeed seem to be changing. More and more shops in my locale specialize in little more than replacing parts. Maybe doing a little bedding and trigger work. If the job requires much thinking, they pass on the job.

I used to get calls from people wanting to apprentice. But 5 minutes into the interrogation conversation, I discover what they really want to do is skip the design theory and practical application part of the learning process and jump right into making chips. I tell them that part of the apprenticeship requires they learn to disassmble and properly clean and inspect guns, and they want to know what I pay for that. My reply usually brings the conversation to an end.

I'm not seeing the "Historical photo".

I was introduced to Gunsmithing thru THE Gunsmith in my small town. His full time job was that of a master Machinist for the railroad who had a LARGE shop in my home town where they rebuilt and maintained steam engines. His shop was a meticulously neat and UNCLUTTERED small building in the backyard of his home. His belief was if you didn't keep it neat and clean you weren't really proud of your work, and he WAS proud of his work which was ALL by hand. No lathe, no milling machine just a drill press and hand tools. He made ANY part that had to be made and polished and blued guns and built beautiful stocks mostly for shotguns as that is the predominate gun in my home area. To say he was an artist with a file does not do justice to the term artist. His heat treatment equipment was second to none. A torch and an experienced pair of eyes and a total knowledge of the steel he was working with. He still had unlimited patience to let a 15year old kid set in the shop and watch him work and have him explain what he was doing. He always wanted a set of Frank Mittemeir (sp) wood working tools to use on stocks. When I went to Gunsmith school thatwas one of our first projects to hand forge and temper a set of wood working tools. After I finished my set I made a second set with fine turned oak handles for him. When I gave them to him I was almost as proud as he was that I would do that for him. Here at 74 years of age and many,many rifles later I still remember his pipe and careful instructions as it were yesterday, in fact MAYBE it really was.

quote:

ut 5 minutes into the interrogation conversation