I have a Win M70 375 H&H length, CFR, CM action I want to re-barrel to 404 Jeffery.

It is in a one-off McMillan stock with molded
in reinforcements, it will not need a secondary
barrel recoil lug.

The bolt face has been opened to 0.5429", it has
as UM windowed mag box, an UM follower, the rails have been tweaked, it retains and feeds 404 Jeffery dummies from both side of the magazine.

The barrel is a Lothar-Walther stainless steel
Mauser type "E" proflile, #5130, 0.423-14.

I e-mailed an AR member who I have had do some work for me in the past, who has a great deal of experience doing heavy caliber bolt action rifles
with many very satisfied customers, about doing the job.

His response was that he wanted nothing to do with Lothar-Walther stainless barrels, the ones he had tried to work with were like trying to thread copper, very gummy.

I just mailed the barrel order into Woody 8/3, so I asked if he would do the job if I could change the barrel from SS to CM.

His response was very ambivalent; reading between the likes, I don't think he likes LW barrels.

I have PM'ed Jim Kobe and PDCD but have not received a reply.

I need to find someone with experience with LW SS barrels to do the job for me.

Don't want to star a ruckus or flame war, just want a M70 404 Jeffery.

Thanks in advance for your help.

If he can't thread a Lothar Walther he doesn't know what the hell he is doing. LW50 steel is NOT gummy. Get a real gunsmith to do the work.

Can you tell me the composition of LW50 ?

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I have done a few of them and your gunsmith buddy is right. The LW-50 steel is incredibly tough and gummy. I would say that it machines a lot like 410 stainless if I had to make a comparison. It offers no extremely difficult challenges though. Chambering has to be done at ludicrous speeds to get good finishes and to keep the reamer from loading up and diving. 200 to 250 RPM. I normally chamber other stainless at 90 RPM. You also need to avoid floating reamer holders and use a rigid system like an ER collet. You also need to flood oil from the front to keep the reamer lubed and fight heat. Water or moose milk won't work and the reamer will squeal and work harden the surface or chatter. Threading has to be done at about 300 RPM and carbide is a must. They used to provide machining instructions at one time and I seem to remember them recommending NOT to use solid pilot reamers.

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I have asked and searched for the specs on LW-50 steel mete. But like Rugers stainless, it is a factory secret.

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Celt has a post on this forum page and just going from memory, it sounds like he just copied and pasted Walthers machining instructions.

http://www.practicalmachinist....lther-barrel-126614/

PM sent

Wow, from the sounds of it, I never want to cut any LW barrels.
What is the benefit of using such a cantankerous steel?

Factory secret ?? Just put it on the machine and in seconds you have the complete analysis !
HT might take a bit more time .

It makes it cut smoother dpcd. The material is not hard like some guys say. It's actually kind of gummy it's just really tough. Lot's of guys say that it cuts really hard but you just have to up your speeds a bit and it cuts no different from other stainless. I think you could probably get OK results at 150 RPM. Faster is better though. The big thing that I noticed is that the reamer cuts tight and can be difficult to pull out of the rotating chamber. Using an ER, MT or other collet to hold the reamer in the tailstock solves the problem. So does higher speed.

quote:

Originally posted by mete:
Factory secret ?? Just put it on the machine and in seconds you have the complete analysis !
HT might take a bit more time .

Now you wouldn't want to lend little-ole-me that there $10,000 XRF on a more or less permanent biases now wouldja mete? Wouldja, ole buddy, ole pal, ole freind of mine? Couldja huh? Pretty pleeezzzeee with honey and sugar and maple syriple on top couldja?

LOL

Speerchucker , unfortunately I'm retired and I no longer have access to or connections that have access to those fine machines .BTW there are nice handheld ones today. If I did I'd do the work for you !
You need a friend in a steel mill or similar !

I cut a few Bartleins lately and they cut like butter; not hard, just smooth nice going. I don't know what stainless they are made from but why make a barrel from steel that requires special handling? I have no problems with Douglas either.
I guess my question is, why make things more difficult when there are better options out there.

Well, actually the tougher material is supposed to last longer. Though I have never sat down and counted the shots.

A good analogy for Walther barrels. You know what it's like to thread and chamber a nice 4140 barrel and everything cuts so smooth and easy. Then you pick up a Kreiger, Sako or Tikka barrel and all of a sudden your reamer cuts hard, makes small rings, does funky shit and your threads get raggyer and with micro chatter? Going from chromoly to the gummy Kreiger, Sako and Tikka steel is akin to going from the gummy Kreiger, Sako and Tikka steel to a Walther barrel.

It's simply annoying, personified.

quote:

Originally posted by mete:
Speerchucker , unfortunately I'm retired and I no longer have access to or connections that have access to those fine machines .BTW there are nice handheld ones today. If I did I'd do the work for you !
You need a friend in a steel mill or similar !

SIGH! Damned Indian givers.

Last Longer! I have yet to find a shooter who will shoot out a 404 Jeffery. Or most any hunting rifle. Varmints or targets; yes.
I did do a Krueger .458 last month; cut like melted maple syrup. I tried to get an analogy that a Canuck would understand.
I remember a company (bur forgot the name) from the 1980s or 90s that made hard steel barrels with the goal of longevity; they cost more in tooling to fit and chamber than a new barrel cost. Guess where they are now?

Those silly Europeans used to do that too with their purple blued, chrome vanadium barrels. Damned crunchy, chalky cutting crap. Was like machining 1018 with an attitude. No matter where you go someone has to have the double, top secret, special system or material that's so much better than everyone elses that it's almost magic. Most of the time they have just reinvented the ( T U R D ) !

quote:

Originally posted by speerchucker30x378:
Those silly Europeans used to do that too with their purple blued, chrome vanadium barrels. Damned crunchy, chalky cutting crap. Was like machining 1018 with an attitude. No matter where you go someone has to have the double, top secret, special system or material that's so much better than everyone elses that it's almost magic. Most of the time they have just reinvented the ( T U R D ) !

The only chrome vanadium barrels I ever machined were for the manufacture of Mil-Spec AR15/M16/M4 platforms. Of course I really didn't machine them. I just programed this big duel turret Doosan to do the heavy work. Still had to have my speeds and feeds correct. It was a real eye opener on tooling inserts as well. Had been using Sandvik which I personally never cared for and the inserts just had no life to them. Sandvik rep says that they were performing to spec. Went to Kennametal and the inserts lasted 3 times as long. Kennametal rep wanted our business.

I use full form carbide for threading on brakes Dave. Of course I'm using it on single stage machines and on a lot of those old chrome vanadium barrels I have found that I simply can't turn them fast enough to make clean threads in that crap. 28 and 24 TPI comes out raggy even at 300 RPM which is about as fast as I can run and still catch the clock without having the half nuts half engaging once in a while. Of course an HSS tool with a lot of rake solves the problems but my point is that; I like to bitch about everything?

I have been using that Buttercut threading compound lately as opposed to Ridged and Sulflo and will here say that the stuff does make life easier in chrome vanadium and gummy stainless. Stuff stinks worse than a rotted McDonalds grease fryer pot with a week old dead rat floating in it and according to the label it causes everything you don't ever want to have but it does work well.

Gee! All our SS threads get the wire bush treatment to remove the small feathering that will cause the threads to bind. It ain't rocket science, just know how!

I do the same with a small wire wheel in a dremel tool while the barrel is turning. It won't cover those minute chatter marks or tearing though.

I have someone that might do it for you, give me a PM

I got Woody to change the barrel from SS to CM.

Thanks to those who shared their expertise and experience with the non-machinist folks like me,
it was very enlightening and educational.

PM sent to Nate

quote:

Originally posted by speerchucker30x378:
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I have asked and searched for the specs on LW-50 steel mete. But like Rugers stainless, it is a factory secret.

I have the Spec sheet direct from woody. You want a copy. LW went to Krup steel and told them what properties they required in a ss and Krup made it for them.

Yes use plenty of tap magic or rapid tap. I cut at 90 to 120 rpm no problems.

4140 is available in a standard version and a free machinig version with extra sulfur.
416 is the free machining grade of 410 but it has no upper limits for the sulfur
Crucible came out with a 416 that does have upper limits as 416R to avoid brittleness !

The LW50 maker is spelled Krupp [the guys who made the steel for the big bore Krupp railroad guns of WWI and WWII.

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:

quote:

Originally posted by speerchucker30x378:
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I have asked and searched for the specs on LW-50 steel mete. But like Rugers stainless, it is a factory secret.

I have the Spec sheet direct from woody. You want a copy. LW went to Krup steel and told them what properties they required in a ss and Krup made it for them.

Yes use plenty of tap magic or rapid tap. I cut at 90 to 120 rpm no problems.

Yeah, people are always asking for info like that. If you can, post it in that thread on mechanical drawings and stuff D Humbarger.