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Could one of these be built in 7.62x54r? Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | ||
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No. Just to convert them to 218 Bee the firing pin hole has to be bushed.  Doug Humbarger NRA Life member Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club 72'73. Yankee Station Try to look unimportant. Your enemy might be low on ammo. | |||
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Did I see someone had converted one of these two a 7x30 waters? Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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The action itself is plenty strong enough, but the barrel thread tenon is too small in OD @ 0.750". The failure mode is swelling of the chamber upon firing, and it's largely dependent upon the tensile strength of the barrel steel that was used. At pressures of ~40-45K, cartridges of 30-30 head size (0.420") are OK but no larger. At pressures of ~50-55K, cartridges of 223 Rem head size (0.375") are fine but no larger. I have actually seen one Cadet chambered in 218 Mashburn Bee that had swelled its chamber. I had rebarreled it for my friend Ben Shelor(The Infamous Engraver), using a used barrel that he had supplied. Apparently the barrel was too soft and extraction became difficult after the second shot, becoming more and more difficult with a few more shots until extraction required a cleaning rod down the muzzle. Ben was a very experienced reloader and his loads were supposedly OK, so I conclude that the barrel steel in this unknown previously-used barrel was simply too soft in this instance. I've rebarreled several dozen Cadets using the above size-&-pressure guidelines and have had no problems except the single instance noted above. These size-&-pressure guidelines came from Frank de Haas' books and they appear to be spot-on. The Cadet will almost always require that the breech face and striker nose be bushed to a smaller diameter, this is done for easier extraction at today's higher pressure levels. When rebarreling a Cadet, IMO every effort should be used to maximize the thread tenon diameter over the chamber. This includes using a 55-degree Whitworth threading tool instead of the usual US 60-degree one, and, mainly, NOT cutting a relief groove between the threads and the barrel shoulder. I repeat, DO NOT cut a thread-relief groove at the barrel shoulder! And DO NOT chamber for the 225 Win, its pressure is too high for the little barrel tenon even though it's a 30-30-size case head. 25-35, 219 Zipper, 30-30 and 7-30 Waters are OK since they're factory-loaded to lower pressures, but no 225! Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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A gun shop by me has an aussy (I posted pics before). It's chambered for 32 Win Spc. NOT 32 Win (32-20). | |||
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I have a bunch of cadets in various chamberings. One of which is 7x30 waters. That said, you would be happiest with shorter and smaller cartridges I expect. I have one that was a basterdized 219 zipper imp. A 225 win reamer just cleaned up the chamber, so I have a 225 on a 30-30 case. I run it with a 45 grn bullet ( 1-16 twist) at 3250 fps and it shoots well and doesnt stress things. | |||
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7-30 Waters has become a favorite of Bob Snapp, perhaps THE most famous Cadet enthusiast smith. Bob's been building custom Cadets for as long as many of us have been alive, and I suspect that he knows more than anyone else about their potential. The 32 Win Special was a common rechambering alteration when these little rifles were first imported back in the late '50s and early '60s. The 310 bore is too large for the 32-20 but just right for the 32 Special, although the slow 310 twist won't stabilize the heavier 32 Special bullets. My friend George the Knifemaker has Cadets in a dozen different chamberings including 357 Herret and 44 Magnum, and he reports that any heavy recoil MUST be counteracted by some sort of reinforcement at the stock's head where it bottoms out in the receiver's socket. My own practice is to install longitudinal allthread rods running parallel to the drawbolt, evenly spaced around the drawbolt hole and epoxied into place. Be VERY CAREFUL around the top side because the wood gets very thin on the top of the stock's wrist. If you want a hot 30-cal Cadet, one of the best conversions is the 30-30 Wesson, made from 357 Maximum brass. One of THE MOST ACCURATE match cartridges and a good deer-killer too with heavier bullets. Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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i built one in 219 donaldson. that is the largest case that i would ever attempt to make a cadet in. and then i don't load it to anyway near max. so why build it? seemed like a good idea at the time | |||
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I had considered building a cadet in .256 Winchester Magnum and of course .218 Bee. Maybe I should spend the extra dough and get something a little better than a Cadet? Nathaniel Myers Myers Arms LLC nathaniel@myersarms.com www.myersarms.com Follow us on Instagram and YouTube I buy Mauser actions, parts, micrometers, tools, calipers, etc. Specifically looking for pre-WWII Mauser tools. | |||
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IMO the 256WM is one of the very best chamberings for the Cadet other than a pure wildcat. The little rifle is plenty strong enough for loads far in excess (~55K) of the factory ones (~40K). I've built 2 Cadets in this chambering and both did well with slower rifling twists of 12" and 14". George's 256 with 10" twist didn't develop enough velocity for good accuracy with the tighter twist so he rechambered it to 25-35AI and it immediately settled down to shoot well with the added velocity. Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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Joe, Good to know. I still have not decided between a Cadet, Winchester low wall, or go for broke and get something like Martini's new tiny single shot. Nathaniel Myers Myers Arms LLC nathaniel@myersarms.com www.myersarms.com Follow us on Instagram and YouTube I buy Mauser actions, parts, micrometers, tools, calipers, etc. Specifically looking for pre-WWII Mauser tools. | |||
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If I am correct, Martini's new small action has a 7/8" barrel thread. Keep in mind that Weatherby uses this size on their lightweights for larger calibers. JD is right in that the barrel steel is important. For my taste, the 218 Bee is about the perfect round for the cadet. I also have two of the small Falling Block Works actions which have the same 3/4" barrel thread. I did one in 222R and one in 25-35. The 25-35 is sweet, and with Leverevolution(sp?) powder and a 29" barrel, it approaches the 250 Savage factory ballistics with only around 40K pressure. It may be the ideal chambering for a small shank barrel, since the tapered body leaves a lot of chamber metal, extracts easily and has a rim for extraction. Given the level of performance possible, I am not remotely inclinded to try the 25-35 AI. Much less chamber wall for safety, and likely more extraction difficulty. | |||
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Joe - Do you think the action could handle the .327 Federal Magnum? I think a little rifle in that cartridge would be very handy. . | |||
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I have one in 357 maximum and it handles that very well. 200 grn bullets at 2000 fps no pressure/extraction problems at all. | |||
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Mike. I have one in 7-30 Waters that Duane Wiebe built for me. I have played a lot with the Martini Cadets and were I looking to build another deer-capable rifle on one would likely go with either another 7-30 Waters or .30-30 for a factory round or a 6.5 TCU (.223 case necked to 6.5). Dave One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know. - Groucho Marx | |||
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