The question came up at camp. I only deal with 'smiths, but I'd thought I'd ask- does anyone have any experience with Krieger's gunsmithing services?

Seems like the basic stuff one would expect from a barel mfg. Any one have any dealings with them?

Just a generic/curiosity question, I didn't know how to answer "why not use them" rather than one of the guys I do. "Because," didn't go over well....

I can't imagine they would want to soil their reputation by turning out poor quality work. That said, I think you tend to get a more consistent quality from a small one man shop than you will from a large shop employing several hands.

The only thing that I don't like about Krieger's gunsmithing service is that they do the finish barrel crowning with a pilot crowning tool instead of on a lathe. I've seen marks from the pilot inside the bore.

It's my understanding that if they use anything other than a lathe to cut the crown, then it's the Manson crowning tool which in competent hands leaves absolutely no marks in the bore.

The Manson tool uses an expanding pilot that essentially locks itself to the bore so that the only thing spinning is the carbide cutter. I use the Manson tool on my beloved M1A and if there was the slightest possibility of marring the bore, I wouldn't.

Back before Winchester offered a 95 in 405 Kreiger offered a conversion. I sent him my 95 in 270 and he converted to 405. Barrel was even properly marked with the winchester markings. Work was without any flaws that I could discern. I had an ERA pedestal rear sight and a ramp front with red fiber sight specified and he installed them perfectly. I have used several Kreiger barrels on builds and would have no hesitation to send him any work in the gunsmithing line. Quick turnaround is not the name of the game though from my experience.

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:
It's my understanding that if they use anything other than a lathe to cut the crown, then it's the Manson crowning tool which in competent hands leaves absolutely no marks in the bore.

The Manson tool uses an expanding pilot that essentially locks itself to the bore so that the only thing spinning is the carbide cutter. I use the Manson tool on my beloved M1A and if there was the slightest possibility of marring the bore, I wouldn't.

I inspected a never fired barrel received from Krieger for an AR15, and I found what looks like a pit or small group of scratches about 3/16" inside the bore. There are two others, but not as big as the pin head size largest one. A Q-tip will not snag on it, but you can can feel it if you run the end of a small plastic tube (long nozzle from can of Brake-Kleen) over it. Feels rough.

Krieger responded and said the marks are from the crowning tool. They said the marks are light and will smooth out and disappear as the barrel is broken in. Krieger says the marks are not lapped out, as excessive lapping can degrade accuracy and damage the crisp crown.

They said a crowning tool is used to provide a uniform crown, and that it is a little easier and faster to accomplish that with the crowning tool. Was told the marks do happen and if bad enough, barrel is not shipped. Otherwise, generally it's not a problem.

They stated that using a boring bar many times would require an additional set-up to assure that the crown is uniform 360 degrees around the bore and that the pilot on the crowning tool takes care of this a little quicker.

I was told that the volume of barrels produced requires use of production type methods that still preserves their quality standards.


When I'm paying for a custom built, hand lapped barrel, I don't expect production shortcuts as a means of increasing quantity over quality.

Thanks for the info Frank. I use an oil barrier between the pilot and the bore of my Manson tool. Absolutely no mark. Of course I'm not in production mode so I am pretty careful how I insert things. Learned that little gem from my online amateur Proctology course.

The main reason I know people do NOT use Krieger is the astronomical wait times. I called about having a national match AR upper put together for a customer and it was something close to a year.

Most people would rather wait on their local smith a year cause they can b#^$ to him whenever convenient about the wait.

I just received a completely finished, chambered AR barrel from Kreiger. It took just over three weeks from the time I placed the order until I had it in my hands.


The work is flawless, and the barrel shoots unbelievably well. There are no marks inside the bore near the muzzle that would indicate a less than careful job of crowning.

Wow, I will have to call them back. Maybe their lead times on barrels are not 7 months anymore either. I need some barrels!

quote:

Originally posted by CAS II:
I just received a completely finished, chambered AR barrel from Kreiger. It took just over three weeks from the time I placed the order until I had it in my hands.


The work is flawless, and the barrel shoots unbelievably well. There are no marks inside the bore near the muzzle that would indicate a less than careful job of crowning.

That's good to know.

Again, I couldn't dispute the "well they don't want their reputation to be blemished," and all I could come up with is "because....."

Well, apparently I was wrong. I just heard that Kreiger doesn't use Manson's crowning tool. They use Brand X, with a live pilot. That right there would be the reason for the tool marks.

Call me old fashioned, but personally, I would rather not have tool marks present on a precision hand lapped bore. Or, at least not on the muzzle end.