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I think I found my answer already on the Big Bore Forum, but wanted to confirm my answer. I'm going to have a 8x68s built on a Mauser action. And while traditional rear sights like Mauser or the British makers would fit would be traditional, I just don't see them being accurate (without lots and lots and lots of practice) for very long range shots. So I was thinking of a Talley Peep Sight (Since I will have Talley bases) and carrying that as backup. I always carry an extra 4x or 6x scope with me (already sighted in) for my in field hunts, but I keep back at camp. A peep sight would fit nicely in just about anything. Does this logic make sense? And if it does, would I forgo the rear sights and just have a front sight and install the rear receiver peep sight when needed? Or also have the rear sights (if they don't interfere) for cosmetic/traditionalist reasons? "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | ||
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I am likely going with the same settup on my mannlicher build. Talley peep that will either store in the grip cap (awaiting suppliers dimensions) or a Biesen trap door butt plate. No rear sight on mine. | |||
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Thanks! BTW - ain't no way I'm going with a steel butt plate on this rifle  I like the idea though. Not sure if the grip cap would fit."Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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I just got a Talley for my 06 and it's a very solid setup/ As far as storing it in the grip cap I dont think there is a current grap cap trap that is large enough. So much so that I am working on building one from scratch that I know will fit the peep. I dont have the option of a trap buttplate but that would be what I would do if I had a rifle built. | |||
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I prefer this set-up. Iron sights are hard enough to shoot well accurately at distance as it is. Why introduce more error with a sight that you take on and off?  Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Austin Hunter - I think your propsed backup solution is an excellent one. Mike - Though your chosen option will work well enough for short and perhaps some intermediate ranges, for longer shots I think it may cause more errors than Austin's proposed solution. At least two reasons for that thinking: 1. A fall which damages a scope in the field may well dislocate open sights located on top of a scope. (I've had a dropped rifle bend a steel scope tube to where it had over 3/4" of curve in it.) 2. It is easier to put back on a good sturdy receiver sight and shoot well with it than to raise one's head and crank one's neck to an un-natural position to use an open sight atop a scope tube. I am not particularly conversant with Talley peeps, but a good old "Central" type receiver sight mounts and dismounts with virtually no change of zero. That's one reason target shooters have used them for many years in the Commonwealth countries. They quite commonly remove them between each different range in their high-power matches with NO adverse affects on their scores. A similar mount base could doubtless be made for a Talley peep too, though it might not be inexpensive. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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I have heard of guys taking just the peep part and cutting a dovetail into the top of the base like the poic above shows. Only deal is that it has to work with the clearance of the rings etc. Having had a good in-person look at a talley peep, There basically isn;t any room for the thing to move; no slop whatsoever. Slide it all the way forward and tighten the tension screw. Good to go... | |||
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I like a single-leaf open barrel sight mounted close to the front of the forearm for a MUCH sharper sight picture. This open sight is zeroed for 75-100 yds, while the detachable peep is zeroed for the longest range practicable depending upon chambering, usually 200 yds or even farther in some cases. Talley made/makes a screw-cap trap grip cap that's sized for his neat little peep; the others that I've seen are slightly too small for this. For a rifle with a recoil pad, I like using a belly trap. Plenty of room for peep sight storage plus room for other stuff too.  AAMOF even the slide from a Lyman 48 will fit fine under the belly trap lid! Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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Alberta, "At least two reasons for that thinking: 1. A fall which damages a scope in the field may well dislocate open sights located on top of a scope. (I've had a dropped rifle bend a steel scope tube to where it had over 3/4" of curve in it.) 2. It is easier to put back on a good sturdy receiver sight and shoot well with it than to raise one's head and crank one's neck to an un-natural position to use an open sight atop a scope tube." I believe you are confusing the the peep mounted on Mike's scope base and the hinge atop the rear scope cover. Austin, keep an eye out for the old Warne Premier baes with the integral Peep. they made one for Mauser and show up from time to time on Ebay Something I heard about from JT Steele is utilizing the small folding peep that Redfield used to offer on it's bases and adapting it to any rear scope base. They attach with two small screws so a rear base that is tall enough can be D&T'd for one of these.   | |||
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Anyone ever use some of the original bolt mounted Mauser sights? I have a pic of one in a book that would be neat to try and replicate. "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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The peep sight is from XS sight systems they make it for the rem 700. With respect to the notion that a fall that damages the scope could also damage the peep sight; I don't feel like that is really a concern for two reasons: 1) the peep sight is pretty well protected under the scope 2) What about the front sight? are we going to keep that in our pocket also cause the fall might damage that also. With respect to you reference about craning one's neck; I think you need to double check the photo. The peep sight is on the scope base. The difference between the height of my peep sight and that of a Talley is probably about a 1/3 of an inch with the Talley being the taller. My scope clears the peep sight with medium rings. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I have a Talley peep on my P64 M70 and left the original rear folding sight on. Note that the Talley peep sitting on top of the rear base required a taller front sight so the original rear sight is not in the way (or useable). The Talley peep returns to the same zero just like their bases. Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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Two other options are Brockman's pop-up peep in a Talley base and the Lo-Pro. Brockman's is a complete rear base with a sring-loaded pop-up and the Lo-Pro is the simpler answer Lo-Pro Brockmans Both have the same benefit as Mike's; they're there all the time ready to go. You would need a dovetail in the base for the Lo-Pro for windage adjustment. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Holy enchildas! The Brockman site is cool. Looks like all you have to do is drill and tap a single hole into the rear of the base? I also can't help but think of this when I hear Brockman....  "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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Do you mean like this Austin Hunter.  This was the first set-up with trial scope in place but the clearance under the scope was not quite enough so another stem was made that sat a bit lower and gives freedom for "energetic" bolt working.  These are beautifully made by Rusty Marlin from the forum. I usually hunt with it as the main sight and carry a 2-7 Leupold in the qd rings in a German style leather shoulder bag with 5 rounds of ammo and sighted for longer range. So far have not needed to install the scope on a hunt, and have taken animals out to 185yds. Have a 4-16 Monarch in second set of qd rings for a bit of paper work - playing. Von Gruff. | |||
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This is true, mostly. I just sold my Brockman in favor of a Talley. You have to be careful of the geometry with the BRockman. I had a fixed 4 power and it worked OK with that but when I put on a variable power scope it did not work, the peep hit the power ring and also, given the larger diameter of the power ring the peep did not have enough room to compress as far as it needed to. NOte in the pic on Jim's site that the peep hits the main tube. On both of my scopes, it either hit the ocular or the power ring. If you like low scope mounts as I do, you may want to get one from Jim and do some measuring before you commit fully. | |||
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Looks like I need to get moving on building a copy of the Burgess peep sight. Best design around. No clearance issues, and adjustable. www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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With the increasing interest in classic and really functionable rifles we have seen in recent years, I would bet that you could sell as many of those as you wanted to produce and make a decent dollar on them. I have Brockman's, Talleys and divers other "peep" sights on almost all of my currently 34 big game rifles, from .264WM to .458WM and I love them. BC is wet and very rugged and rifles do get bumped, so, such a rig is very practical and worth the cost, IMHO. | |||
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Here's one from Lyman mounted on an early long 98 cocking piece; got two of these.  I like the Rusty Marlin design better but.... Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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NICE - you guys all rock for the help on this. What is the Burgess peep sight? "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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The Lymans came with a cap that could be soldered to the cocking piece rather than dovetailed, also. Sako made a scope base peep, as did FN, I believe. The FN has eccentric apertures, IIRC, and I believe the Sako has a similar feature. The Sako is the 9th photo below. Food for thought:            "motion limiters" added to bolt shrouds-   Also, just curious- what about a full bridge mount, like a Farrel or others, with a NECG peep for Weaver mounted at the extreme rear, and scope mounts forward of that? Probably ain't enough room  | |||
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Mike - I WAS surprised that you had a picture of what appeared at first glance to be an open rear sight on a scope. I went back and looked again (t your suggestion) and now see that it must be a bubble-type scope level that I took to be a sight on top the scope. I also see that the sight to which you were referring is mounted UNDER the scope. I owe you an apology for not catching that the first time around. It is just that I have seen guys carrying scopes with those cheapo open sights mpounted on them and thought that was what you were showing. Sorry. From your previous posts I should have known better. As to damaging the front sight...that CAN happen, but it is much less likely if the rifle is dropped because the bulk of the rifle weight is not at the mussle. It is usually the bigger e heavier part of the rifle which strikes first, if it is dropped, for whatever reasons. If the hunter himself falls, while still holding the rifle, then it seems to be the front sight indeed which does get the most frequent damage (along with the barrel crown), from my observations. And, if there WAS a good., handy, easily removable and accurately replaced front sight, then yes, I would recommend having one. Especially for longer range iron sight use. There are such sights for target rifles, but as they are usually too overly large and clumsy for hunting rifles, and don't allow good vision around their outside edges, I could not recommend one of those for any hunting rig. Best wishes, AC My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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SOP for preventing much front sight damage is to leave the sight's detachable hood attached or its folding hood in the protective position until actually in the shooting area. This is the entire reason that the hood is made so as to be able to move it out of the way! The in-place hood provides protection while its removal provides improved vision and better sight acquisition. Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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As Joe says the front sight hood is a pocket carry when hunting -----unless it is bright sunlight and the hood can go back on to save shooting to the sunny side of the sight. Von Gruff. | |||
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This was shown to me by another poster. They originally posted it and SDH's copy right is still intact on the photo So I don't believe it should be an issue.   This is a back burner project for me but I will have a working model soon Completely eliminates the whole debate on carrying a sight in your pocket. Although the rear does not appear to be adjustable for elevation. that can be accomplished on the front sight. If it is only a back up sight and I would assume for large and maybe dangerous game. Then pinpoint accuracy is not needed. www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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The Brits dealt with this a long time before now. WR, for instance had available a front sight hood which simply folded out of the way (as you referred to). My .318 had one, and I appreciated having it. Rigby used to commonly provide a spare front sight which came with the rifle in the cavity under the "trap" grip cap. So did my Dan'l Fraser bolt guns and my H&H assembled Mausers. Those rifles (mine) were made prior to 1930, but still had the spares in the grips when I got them. At any rate, on a scoped gun, I would have no problem with carrying both a spare rear and spare front sight in my possibles kit. They take very little space, weigh little, and may be worth more than gold in some circumstances. Anyone else's mileage may vary. Fair enough. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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Creedmoor sports carries the "micro sight". It was originally marketed to Hi-Power shooters bound for Camp Perry, but is just as applicable to our ship of fools. Just about any peep style back-up sight can be threaded for a hooded micro sight. The sight is made up of about a dozen concentric lenses called "zone plates". This sight allows you to wear your distance prescription. You see both the front sight and the animal clearly. These sights are rugged; permanently attaching one to a Talley peep sight would answer a lot of questions. Micro-sight peep-sight Creedmoor also sells a Westward 2LXE Hand Tap, Taper, HSS, 1/4-32 tpi. for threading your peep sight. When I was younger, fleet of foot, and short the money needed for a decent scope, I used a Sako peep sight on my 375 H&H (It had the required front sight). In the position where you can see the digits "100", it is zeroed for 100 meters. By rotating the peep portion 180 degrees the digits "200" were now on top; the sight was zeroed for 200 meters -WOW! Anyway, check out those "zone plates" on the video at the URL. LD  | |||
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My 24V had an open sight partway down the barrel, changed it to a folding peep. Prior to that I had a machined peep screwed to the top of the scope base; that worked all right also and once adjusted (by machining it) stayed put. TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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Kerry, That would be a very welcomed option. Any chance of making the rear base so that it won't obstruct the stripper clip slot and making the peep sight taller to minimize the discrepancy between the sighting height of the optics and the backup peep sight? Looking forward to your update. Ray
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I have one of the Redfield folding peeps on a Pre-64 M-70 270 that my Uncle gave me. It has seen many miles hunting goats and bears in the northern Rockies. Works slick and shoots good for a back-up. I am looking for more to add to modern site bases. Its a viable option. SSR | |||
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Anything can be done. That said if you raise the rear sight high enough to compensate for the same line of sight as the scope. The front sight will be in you line of sight with the scope in place. Personally I don't like to see the shadow of a front sight in the scope but it is just a shadow. As for clearance for the stripper slot, that should not present a problem www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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This is the route I'm taking with my Lon Paul .505 Gibbs. It is a peep sight built by Joe Smithson for use in connection with his scope mount. http://www.smithson-gunmaker.com/mounts.htm | |||
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