Hello, I'm about to embark on refinishing a stock. I understand that I must first seal the stock, can someone suggest a good sealing product? Also I plan to oil finish the stock. I understand that I can use tru-oil for this and its a product that is readily available at walmart. I have some formby's tung oil as well but understand this is a furniture oil and not to suited for outdoor use. Can I mix that stuff with some spar urathane to make a weather resistant mix?

Wrote this up a while ago....hope it helps..

Stock finishing

This is by no means an all inclusive procedure. This method works for me and by no means is the only way to finish a gunstock. A list of supplies is first followed by stepped procedures.

Supplies

Wet/dry 320 grit paper
Wet/dry 600 grit paper
Wet/dry 1200 grit paper
Wet/dry 1800 grit paper
1 pint of marine varnish(McCloskey�s)
1 quart of Daly�s BenMatte tung oil
Mineral spirits.
Rotten stone
Several hard felt pads
0000 steel wool
lots of clean rags or paper towels

Lets assume that the stock has been thoroughly block sanded from 100 grit up to 320 grit. Never sand a stock with out a hard backing surface! The next step is whiskering. Wet the stock thoroughly and use a hair dryer or other no flame heat source to quickly dry the wood. This will raise the fine whiskers on the stock. Rub the stock cross grain with the 0000 steel wool to cut the whiskers off. Repeat this process until no more whiskers will stand up. Usually takes about 6 times.

Sealing the wood

Get your can of marine varnish and mix equal portions of the varnish and mineral spirits in glass jar. Take a rag or brush and slop this mixture over the entire stock. This includes the inletting, barrel channel, under the grip cap, recoil pad. Let stand for an hour and wipe off the excess if there is any. Let is dry good and hard for about 4 or 5 days. Repeat the procedure and this time let dry for at least a month. The wood should be thoroughly sealed at this point.

Filling the pores

Get your mix of varnish and mineral spirits out again and pour some onto a plate. Get a piece of that hard felt and some 320 grit wet/dry paper. Dip the paper in the mixture and block sand the surface with the grain. This process creates a mixture of wood dust and finish. It should look like mud. Be sure to change your paper every so often so you are cutting well. Once the stock has been completely wet sanded take your clean paper towel and very gently wipe the surface cross grain. Wipe as though you were dusting a fine piece of porcelain. This will push the mud you created into the pores. Let dry a couple of days. Repeat this procedure until all the pores have been filled. Different stocks will take require more wet sandings than others. It will depend on how porous the wood is. The stocks I work with usually take 6 wet sandings to fill the pores. The final time you do this wipe off the stock completely with the grain. Leave no mud on the stock. Let dry for at least a week.

Building the finish

Grab that can of Daly�s Ben Matte tung oil, your hard felt pads, and your 320 grit paper. Pour some tung oil on a plate and wet sand the entire stock. Wipe completely off with the grain. Repeat process with 320. Continue wet sanding and wiping off completely with 600, 1200, 1800 grit paper. Do each stage twice.

The Rub Out

This part can be difficult and frustrating so take your time. Get your rotten stone, the tung oil, and your hard felt pad. Pour some tung oil on a plate and dip the hard felt pad in the finish�pick up some rotten stone with the wet pad. Rub with the grain VERY gently. Work a small area then move on to another. Keep dipping in the tung oil and then the rotten stone. The more stone you have on the pad the faster it cuts so watch it. This usually takes me a couple of hours so don�t rush it. When the stock has been completed rubbed out take a clean paper towel and soak it with the tung oil. Wipe the stock down with the rag to remove all the stone. Then take a dry paper towel and wipe the stock dry.
Let this sit around for 2 weeks.

The Final Finish

All of your hard work now comes down to this. This is the finish that everyone will see so take your time. Pour a little (like a teaspoon) of tung oil into a small dish( I use an ashtray). Pick up a single drop of tung oil with your finger and rub it in thoroughly. Work a small area and use only one drop at a time. You are applying very thin coats of finish here that will dry quickly and should not allow lint to collect on the surface. If your finish is very thin it should dry over night. Wait another day just to be sure. Apply another coat. You are done when the stock looks like you want it too. I usually do five hand rubbed coats but you may like the way it looks after just one or two. Its up to you. If you make a mistake, or have a run in the finish you can always rub the stock out again with your rotten stone and start the hand rubbed process over.

I usually let the stock hang around for about a month before I checker it or subject it to any kind of weather. Well I hope this has been informative. Good luck and you know where to find me if you need help.

Hi Bill,
I've been looking into Ben Matt and right on the can it states it is an interior finish. That's enough for me. About 10yrs ago I finished a stock with straight tung oil and it washed off the surface in a rain storm I got into. Think I'll stick to True Oil or a mixture of boild linseed/ spar varnish/ menerialspirits/ japan dryer. Some people may have good luck with straight tung oil but in my experience it dosn't hold up in the weather. Pete

Pete,

Ben Matte was recommended to me by more than one stockmaker in the ACGG. I have used it for a while now and my hunting rifles get wet. I have not noticed any problems with using Ben Matte. Dalys also makes a SeaFin Teak oil that says for outside use on the can.

Pete,
I just called Daly's on the phone and got the following: The main thing lacking is UV protection. If you do have a built up finish it will be waterproof. If you want to leave your rifle out in the sun for weeks on end it may discolor without the UV protection but that is not likely - duh.

No finish is waterproof if it is just "in" the wood and does not have a built up finish. You have to have a skin on the surface or you are proverbially "pissin in the wind." Mark Silver, a stockmaker in Michigan did a research project with the University of Michigan some years ago and that basically was their findings (without the "pissin" part of course).

Don't know what kind of rain you were in where the finish "washed away" but tung oil is not water soluble. Pure tung oil takes forever to dry in some climates and I never use tung oil unless it has some driers or polymers in it to assist drying. And I never use boiled linseed oil anymore. Your mixture will be better but there are just better products available and from my experience BennMatte is one of the best. One other you might want to try is Sea Fin Teak Oil, also by Daly's. It does have all your UV protection if you do get this desire to lay in in the sun for the summer. And no, I am not a wandering internet Daly's agent.

Hope this helps.

[ 08-01-2002, 21:47: Message edited by: Customstox ]

Sounds like this Ben Matte product is very well liked. Does someone know where I can order some?

Customstox, lighten up. These forums are suppose to be fun.
The tung I had wash off was McClusky's tung oil. The kind of rain was an all day soaking affair while elk hunting on the Little North Fork. I had wet sanded the first 3 or 4 in to fill the pores and then built up a surface coating of at least 12 to 15 coats with aleast 2days between coats.
It rolled up in little things that resembled mouse droppings. The checkering area soaked up water like a sponge, the grain developed high and low spots even though I had raised the grain and cut it off with sand paper several times. It was a real bear to clean up and I spent a very unplesant time chasing the checkering. That was my experience with tung oil. What can I say, never had that happen with the mixture or TrueOil.
What I am looking for is something that leaves a dull finish. You can rub out TrueOil but after handleing it a bit the gloss will start to come back. Last time I talked to him my buddy Frank Wells(a stock maker in Tucson)was using the mixture. Maybe you know him?
I will give your BennMatt a try on some scrap of walnut, get it wet and see what happens.
By the way I don't lay out in the sun, it causes skin cancer. I've got enough just getting over my colon cancer . Pete

Pete,

It sounds like the coats of tung oil were not dry before you applied successive coats. I have had this happen to me when I tried to rush things. Rolls up in little mouse turds.

Pete,
Lighten up? I didn't take the whole discussion that seriously or think I acted poorly towards you. Sorry if you took it that way.

Your finish sounds like it did not cure. That was the point I was making about pure tung oil. Idaho has a lot better climate though for curing it, but like I said, pure tung oil is a pain.

BTW, I use a spar varnish like Bill said to seal the wood before applying the oil finish. I did not do that with Sea fin but I will in the future.

I know of Frank Wells. BenneMatte will give you a matte finish. Sea fin will if you hand rub it with rottenstone, oherwise it is a very high gloss.

Sorry to hear about the colon cancer, hope everything is going better for you.

Rather than buy a whole can of BenneMatte, email me your address and I will send you some of it for your test.

Chic

[ 08-02-2002, 02:55: Message edited by: Customstox ]

Customstox
I'm I correct in remembering you saying Columbia Paint carries Bennematte? I first heard you speak of it when I was living in MN. I've since moved to MT. and we have Columbia Paint stores here. Thanks Rob

dempsey,
I don't know if they do or not. Give them a call 1-800 -735-7019 and they can likely give you a distributor in your area.

Beware of linseed oil,,,,it can and will mold in the right conditions,and turn whatever it's applied to blacker than the ace of spades.

Customstox,
If I replyed poorly I am sorry. No excuse, but having a rough coulpe of days with chemo. The matt finish is the only reason I would stray from my two other finishes. The glossy ones even though rubbed out will return to gloss as the gunstock gets used. Thank you for the offer but a friend bought a can already and that where I saw the interior finish warning. Two days between coats is plently for Trueoil or my mixture, how much time between coats of BennMatt? Lewiston is quite dry, I would have thought 2days would have been plently.

Frank and I started building stocks about the same time, late 60s. He stayed with it and also worked in a gunshop(Jensen's, in Tucson)to make ends meet. I had a family to support so I ended up in construction and later opened up a cabinet shop(last 26yrs.). Only have built stocks as a hobby. Over the years maybe close to 50-60, cutting most from complete blanks.

Guys,

Where does one find rottestone? What exactly is it. I always hear it mentioned when finishing stocks is discussed but haven't had much success locating it.

Thanks,

Mike

Just wanted to let you all know I found it in the Brownells catalog that was delivered yesterday.

Thanks,

Mike

Pete,
No explanations needed.

BenneMatte in very light coats will dry easily in two days. When I wet sand I wipe the stock with paper towels and only leave a very small amount on the stock. When I hand rub I use the tips of two fingers and only put some daubs on the forend and the butt stock and then hand rub them and they will dry in a day. I often put 15 coats on like that.

Pure tung oil is very slow drying even in dry climates such as ours. I would stay away from it unless it was in a mixture that had a dryer in it.

One of the problems with custom gunmaking is getting a foothold so you can make a living. An extremely gifted stockmaker from Utah that was in the ACGG had to stop and go get an 8 to 5 to make ends meet. I have never seen anyone who had such a fine grasp of making custom stocks develop like he did. Most of the stockmakers now are supporting themselves with a retirement or doing it on the side.

You take care and my thoughts are with you. I will be travelling thru Lewiston in a few months on my way to the Middle Fork, chasing mulies. Unfortunately I will be with 3 other guys or I would love to stop and chat.

Chic

I like the Ben Matte finish and I used it on my last stock, very nice indeed...

Truoil is a time honored finish and it is as good today as it was 20 years ago, as is Linspeed.

I firmly believe that some people can use one finish better than another, it all boils down to application...

Pete Grissel told me how to use Truoil, you slop it on untit the wood will take no more, wipe it lightly and let sit for 45 to 60 days then follow the directions and man I will tell you that is a durable and fine finish...

Lots of good finishes out there, find one that works for you and stick with it....I have not done that, I am a dyed in the wool experimenter and I have seldom used the same stuff twice...

I like Flecto oil as well as anything but it has Tueanol and that give us cancer, so use rubber gloves with it....it is sho nuff waterproof as far as finishes go and tough, tough...

Sherwin Williams #66, discontinued sure was a beatiful finish....

Then of course there is the old egg white and lemon juice finish and it was beatifull and worked well in desert climates as most...

Never underestimate the old time finishes such as Marine Spar varnish, even mixed with Linseed, they worked pretty well and were beatifull..Belk still uses them I think.

I like the Truoil clear filler best of all, especially with a modified tung oil or any modified oil finish. I am not sure it cross links with Polyurathane, but it is perfect for a oil modified urathane finish.

Poly urathane is a good finish and very waterproof...tough as nails.

The shine can be knocked off any of todays finishes to an egg shell luster, but to get a flat finish like I like is more difficult and hard to maintain your waterproof properties. It is definately a trade off...but properly cured and dried wood is a step in the right direction...

Ray,
You most feel pretty strongly about what you said, you said it twice .

Pete,
You can say that again!!

"What I am looking for is something that leaves a dull finish."

Matt or Satin Spar Varnish or beter Conversion varnish. Conversion varnish dries faster and more evenly. And...if you can get it, Fullerplast. Do your prep work well. Fill the grain if you like, then shoot the finish on. Put on as much as you can without runs. Some skill and experience is necessary with the spray gun. Let it dry, wet sand it. Shoot it with more finish. When filled, rub it out with automitive rubbing compound. I only wet sand to 400 grit. Not point in going finer as the rubbing compound will remove the scratches left by the paper. To make a flatter finish, rub out with super fine steel wool and rubbing compound. Keep it damp with extra water as you work.

Here is the thing. To get any sort of water resistance you need to have a film over the wood. To make it less shiny use a matt, eggshell, or satin product. All this fancy oil this, snake oil that and rubbing until the skin comes off you hand is "hocus pocus". The modern finishes are better than the old oils and concoctions. If they were not nobody could sell the newer better products.

[ 08-08-2002, 02:54: Message edited by: scot ]

The process you discribe sounds like what I use to do with some stuff called KemVar made by Sherwin Williams. Trouble is it looks too thick and that type of finish dosn't belong on a classic style scock. Reminds me of a Weatherby finish. I just don't happen to care for thick finishes. The Biesen clan uses some type of an automotive finish on their stocks, while their work is of a good quality I don't care for the appearence.

Pete, I agree with your assessment. Biesen is using Imron clear Car finish sprayed on. There have always been a lot of short cuts to make it easier. Havent seen one yet that makes it better. Most of the oils we do use today are new and improved. I will pass on the spray guns.

I've always been kinda partial to the spar varnish/oil/"hocus pocus" approach.

I think people who have problems with it aren't doing the incantation chant properly.

GV

Don't forget to sacrifice the chicken. LOL - Dan

" I just don't happen to care for thick finishes."

It depends on how you do your part as to how thick it gets. If it is so thick that you can see the film thickness, cut it back, you have obvioulsly filled tha grain. Keep the finish thinned and cut it back until you just hit the wood wood before the final coat. As for the shiny aspect use a product with a dulling agent. You can get the conversion varnish in matt or semi gloss. Conversion varnish doesn't get the thick build of Fullerplast and the like.

Look at a Ruger or Remington Mountain rifle. You can duplicate that finish in a fraction of the time it takes to make an "exhibition" finish. I do agree the in the wood "hocus-pocus" finish looks a little better than what I am describing. It is also not the best for a rifle that will be used for serious hunting. Closing thought, the rubbed oil finish can darken a stock to much and hurt it's looks. I messed up a AAA fancy piece of English by rubbing linseed into it. Made it really dark and obscured the grain.

Scot,
I tried spraying gun stock finishes on wood about 25yrs. ago. Didn't like em then and don't like now. Yes, I did just about the same steps you've discribed. The only finish I like sprayed on a gunstock is paint on a syn. stock.
I do have one question for though, where the heck is the "Left Coast"? Is it the extreme East or the extreme West? The shoe fits either one.
Pete

Pete, if I had to guess, it would be as you look at the map. So the left coast would be California. (Oregon and Washington, too, but not in the political context, I believe. British Columbia however, rates inclusion, simply because of the lower coastal cities). - Dan

I do have one question for though, where the heck is the "Left Coast"?

It is the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia. .......

"left coast" is a Rush Limbaugh saying.

Find a copy of Clyde Bakers Modern Gunsmithing. By John E. Traister ( Stackpole Books) This book will answer all your question without resevation.
It give you a beautiful finish that is second to none. jimjam

Baker's book is a classic but an out of date classic. His special stock finish includes such things as "cup grease, "axel or bearing grease", and using linseed oil(turns wood black) ---YUCK
Pete

Scot,
Rush is right!